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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
argumate

Anonymous asked:

There was a ban on Muslims this year and you're really sitting here going on about the persecution of atheists lol

argumate answered:

my god Islam has vanished- no wait it’s still exactly where it was, just the US fucking around in the Middle East as per usual.

abusing Italians is wrong, Catholicism is still bad tho.

mitigatedchaos

Atheists are regularly killed by vigilantes in Muslim territories. Does anon not know this?

argumate
argumate

it’s intriguing to imagine the myths you could tell an Iron Age tribe that would actually be correct as well as sounding awesome, like:

humans and apes share a common ancestor, and further back share an ancestor with all mammals, bird, reptiles, fish, and ultimately all living things.

the Earth is over four billion years old.

each of the fixed stars in the sky is another sun like our own.

mitigatedchaos

This is actually something I think about periodically. If religion is true, why doesn’t it contain some scientific fact that couldn’t be proved for another 1,000-2,000 years? Why push only the faith element so hard in a world where spiritual experiences aren’t limited to your religion?

heortewyrm
garmbreak1

i mean, shit, once we figure out the whole “Cosmic radiation” thing and probably also the gravity thing, colonizing Mars isn’t that far-fetched. No more so than, say, Australia.

argumate

did you mean Antarctica :|

heortewyrm

One day we wish to have a permanent outpost on the Australian continent

mitigatedchaos

Only once we’ve engineered bacteria to remove the perchlorates from the soil - oh, nvm, that’s Mars.

Wait, does this mean Mars doesn’t have dingos?  I’m so confused.

Source: garmbreak1 shtpost
argumate
argumate

Philosophy is not engineering, but neither is computer science, at least not the good bits. But that’s a bit of a sidetrack.

By making new universes I meant defining possible worlds, either on paper, or better yet in executable form. These can be humdrum, such as the world of Minecraft, made up of discrete cubes of material with certain laws of interaction, or much more abstract, like a distributed database system where there is no global clock to give a single unambiguous ordering of events, and it is a struggle to achieve a consistent interpretation of the current state for every observer. Or you can go even higher and try and define a dependent type theory that can unify mathematical proof and executable code, which is what we really need.

The interesting thing about these worlds is that we have direct access to the underlying laws and can address questions of object properties and identity directly. Most of them are not reductionist in the way that the real world is, so you can have a chair that literally exists as an independent object that is not made up of smaller parts, and lots of traditional reasoning about object identity then applies.

If we look at a reductionist universe like Conway’s Life, then I think there is not much to say about objects. The only fundamental entities in this universe are grid cells, and the absolute time step that updates them. Influences can propagate through the grid, and particular patterns of cells might be labelled as “objects” while analysing their behaviour, eg. gliders. But this is for notational convenience, we can’t actually learn anything at the object level that we couldn’t learn by studying the underlying cells.

You can create Turing machines in Life, and then you can analyse them as if they were abstract computing devices, ignoring the grid cells. But if a stray glider crashes into the machine, it will break, and the analysis will fail, just as if a chair in the real world caught fire: at some point your mental model would shift from chair, to burning chair, to smouldering remains of what once was a chair, or just pile of unidentified ash.

So there is clearly not much point for philosophers to debate the fundamental nature of Conway’s Life (right? I am assuming this).

The real world is still less well-defined, and there is behaviour we have not yet explained, and laws we have not fully worked out. But I have to draw the line somewhere, and if someone thinks that a chair has existence independently of the particles that make it up, well I don’t really know what to say to them. I mean, the question of what objects are was answered 2500 years ago by Democritus: arrangements of atoms in the void. Even I know that :)

Since there are no intrinsic properties of objects that can’t be dissolved into statements about their component parts, the only reason to have a theory of objects at all is for convenience in modelling and communication. But both of those have specific requirements, there is no single model of objects that will be ideal for every use case. You are going to need a very different model of chairs depending on whether you are talking to a furniture designer, a cafe owner, a Roomba, or a hunter gatherer.

mitigatedchaos

I was speaking in a very compressed way about causal bundling just now, but I wasn’t joking.

A chair has qualities that its subcomponent parts do not, in terms of how it deflects the development of the world towards different directions/timelines vs a non-chair.

In this case, a chair is not an absolute definition, but rather a causal bundle - a cluster within the matter configuration space which has a high probability of producing certain related outcomes.  

You can, then, learn something at the object level that you couldn’t by studying the atoms of the chair.

argumate

Yes, because it’s causally entangled with arrangements of atoms in the brains of a certain species of ape.

mitigatedchaos

Most possible configurations of matter within the same bounding box are not chairs. And at the atomic level, if you take the same atoms, there are almost infinite permutations within the same macro-scale shape of any given chair that have nearly-indentical outcomes in interacting with the environment. Where we put the boundary around the fuzzy cluster is our choice and to some degree arbitrary, but the cluster itself is legitimate macro-scale information.

mitigatedchaos

only because of the entanglement with us

I disagree.  The effect on worldlines is also present for animals and plants, particularly less WRT chairs, and moreso with things like boats or rafts, with the propagation of animals across oceans.

Because of the way those parts work together, an animal is functionally more than the sum of its parts: a wave which the parts ride on.

You can get all the behavior of the animal if you simulate the whole thing at the subatomic level, but that’s because you’re including the wave when you do so.  90% of an animal is quite different from 100% of an animal.

argumate

Is gut bacteria part of the animal in which it resides? How about a bone replaced with titanium?

mitigatedchaos

Yes, kind of.

Your earlier observation “definition for what purpose?” is relevant here, sort of.

You’re pushing out farther from the center of the cluster, and there is more than one cluster of causative properties or w/e that exist simultaneously.  Having a titanium bone is closer in terms of causal influence than missing the leg, but it’s farther out than a natural bone from the primary human cluster.  

Breaking these down into linguistic representations for humans, then, gets into your “definition for what?” situation, since not only are there multiple functional/causal groupings, but they may not even be hierarchical, and then you have to draw boundary lines and tie symbols to things.

Not sure if I’ve conveyed the above adequately.  Quite tired.

philo
garmbreak1

Anonymous asked:

Theres actually a shortage of sand which is crucial to construction we likely won't literally run out of raw materials to mine but it'll become increasingly difficult and expensive not to mention environmentally deleterious where looking to the moon and beyond would seem like a pretty good idea within the next 25-30 years or so this is what we should be focusing on instead of colonies and manned spaced missions or whatever stupid shit elon musk and his cult following want to do

argumate answered:

wait what we’re going to get sand from the moon

garmbreak1

I’m not sure I can accept that manned space missions are more implausible than bringing back enough mass of a granular material to be useful for construction on a worldwide scale. FROM SPACE.

mitigatedchaos

We’d have to build one of those giant electromagnetic space coilguns/tracks that gets costs down to $50/kg - if you launch 35 tons to orbit every three hours.

And TBQF it just isn’t worth the money right now unless you want to build a Bernal Sphere as a backup in case of nuclear war/etc.

Source: argumate
afloweroutofstone
afloweroutofstone

But as wild as the healthcare debate was, the White House communications director going on the record without realizing it and calling the Chief of Staff a “fucking paranoid schizophrenic” and referring to a senior adviser to the president as “trying to suck [his] own cock” is INCREDIBLE. Whoever is writing this season of American politics is on fire

mitigatedchaos

There is only one way to defeat the Trump Whitehouse - low TV ratings.

Until then, the network is going to just keep the show going.

shtpost augmented reality break

I want to shitpost that Social Justice is White Supremacy.

Because under badly-done Social Justice, we see a pattern where only white males have agency, only white males have power, only white males are capable of action that actually does anything and can cause harm, and their resources are effectively unlimited.  Under that same framework, the world is divided into whites and everyone else, and the whites enacted truly stunning and powerful violence on an unimaginable scale that no one else could.  Their dominance is so overwhelming that any minorities disagreeing with SJ have “internalized male opinions” or white opinions, like some kind of mind control, and are incapable of deciding their beliefs for themselves.  And the white supremacy must be actively held down, or it will inevitably seize control of the world.

But of course, it isn’t really the case that even badly-done SJ is truly white supremacist…

gendpol racepol

Anonymous asked:

some people seem to use schools as a substitute for some aspects of church.

There are limits to that.  People eventually have to leave University (except for professors, potentially).

How can a secular replacement be created with enough motive power to gain the same benefits?

And can it do that without turning into a plague of status locusts that constantly accuse each other of being Problematic pedos and creating hate swarms?

anons

@argumate

What are they going to replace it with, though?  

Social Justice?  That train caught fire already.  It’s a nightmare realm of inverse hierarchies and flash hate mobs that propagate just fine even with real identities revealed, full of fraudulent accusations.

Liberalism?  There is no true pure/non-instrumental moral basis for human rights, it’s being stressed pretty significantly right now in ways it can’t address without becoming something other than Liberalism, and it ignores the fact that the way people live has deep impacts on the health and functioning of society.  It seems unable to even adequately power an army, as seems to be the case in Europe.

Moral Capitalism?  That’s even less human and even more corroding.

And it can’t be National Technocracy or some other kind of ideology which preserves the social fabric while adjusting to modernization, either, because those haven’t even been truly invented yet.

ranma-official
argumate

everyone like woah can you imagine if Yahoo had bought Google back in ‘98

yeah, they would have run it into the fucking ground

ranma-official

literally the only thing that would happen is Yahoo using Google’s search algorithm, Yahoo’s main page is still a chore to browse

mitigatedchaos

I was going to say the formation of Google Defense Network is avoided, but they already sold Boston Dynamics, so that’s redundant.

Source: argumate mitigated future