Oceans Yet to Burn

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[klezmer-un-anarkhizm]

the political chart centrists dont want you to see

[thatfuccshit]

If this was even slightly correct wouldn’t the far right be halfway between the start of the bend and the hook.

[westfriend]

prove it wrong!

[unregistered-hypercam2]

the people i disagree with are bad, evil men. the people who disagree with me are nazis, 10/10 times.

[dojyaan]

*looks at horseshoe theory*

wow what the fuck is this centrist garbage

*looks at this fuckshit*

yeah this is reasonable 

[trilllizard420]

Isn’t this kinda implying far left controls the far right? ….You….Sure you uh. Wanna really make that implication?
*tries to make political chart*
*accidentally validates far right CRISIS ACTOR conspiracy theories*

[mutant-aesthetic]

I don’t know what the fuck I’m looking at

[mitigatedchaos]

So what OP is saying is that all a centrist has to do to become far right is become edgy enough.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

The year is 2064.  It has been 26 years since the United States of America collapsed in the Justice War, replaced by the Special Action District by order of the World Court as punishment for its sins.  The last surviving members of the Alt Right are a group of buff tradgay paramilitary cyborgs existing in the forgotten Undercity of New York.  They have just radicalized a group of trapwives into spreading the WHITEOUT virus into major Population Replenishment Centers…

You are detective GEOF BAILEY, an agender multiple system cyborg and member of the New York SAD Police, tasked with ensuring the interjustice of the last metropolis in the land that used to be known as America.  Can you stop the last fascist remnants of a dead country from destroying the diversity of the city?

Shining Darknet Entertainment presents…

W H I T E O U T

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[sneering-imperial-brit]

These people actually think that Harry Potter pioneered themes of virtues and morality.

They truly have never read any books that came before it.

[mitigatedchaos]

This has to be some kind of twitter shitpost.  Right?

…right?

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[ranma-official]

“I don’t like antifa because I don’t consider political violence a hammer for every nail”: good opinion worth engaging

“antifa is a terrorist group, are the real fascists” etc: really bad political analysis here, friend

describing yourself as “anti-antifa” and talking about human rights are secondary to stamping the “antifa scum” out forever: hello, friend! we have plenty of rope left since Nuremberg, so I implore you to reconsider

[shieldfoss]

Antifa is a terrorist group, they are also real fascists.

[mitigatedchaos]

Not every dumb ideology is Fascism. There is also Communism, of both the intentionally and unintentionally authorian kinds.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[blackblocberniebros]

While I’m all for “self-criticism” of antifascists who go too far and use excessive violence or attack innocent people, that’s necessary and too often ignored, it’s worth noting no leftists have killed anyone in the US in decades, while the far right are killing people every couple of weeks now.

[argumate]

this kind of accusation, while tempting, gets awkward because it sort of relies on pushing all the violent people out of the category “leftist” and all the non-violent people out of the category “far right”, resulting in what is basically a tautology.

but at least we can all agree that killing is bad

[blackblocberniebros]

I mean if you wanna include reactionary black nationalists under the category of leftist, that’s understandable even if I wouldn’t include them. They’re monstrous and have killed innocent people.

But if you ask me, and no one did, it’s the very logic of nationalism that leads to aimless murder, the viewing of entire ethnic groups as The Enemy and therefore legitimate targets, and it’s why actual anarchists and socialists in the US, who are internationalists, rarely if ever kill innocent people.

[argumate]

entire classes as the enemy and therefore legitimate targets is a thing too, even if ethnic hatred certainly does suck.

[blackblocberniebros]

To be honest I don’t think anyone believes that, the entire class as a literal enemy in the military sense. No ones out there shooting landlords and business owners at random. No one but the fringest of tankies imagines that any revolution consists of literally murdering the entire former ruling class.

Me thinking it wouldn’t be so bad if someone iced an oil company CEO or war criminal US official is not at all the same as thinking every human being in the entire capitalist class and state apparatus is a “legitimate target”.

[argumate]

right, but we’re kind of haggling over price, now.

[blackblocberniebros]

On the contrary, I think your acceptance of a “minimal” level of state violence that’s just allowed to go on unpunished and that doesn’t reasonably give credibility and justification to retaliation by victimized nonstate actors, is an unacceptable moral imposition on my conscience, a price too high for me to pay.

I’m not willing to take the position of a black-hearted school principal who just tolerates a certain level of abusive victimization by bullies as acceptable but would never allow for a victim to hit back and “start a fight”.

[argumate]

I think the problem in the scenario you describe is tolerating state violence, and the solution doesn’t involve molotov cocktails.

The unprincipled principal may punish both sides equally while the principled principal assesses the situation and delivers justice, but they still have to stop the fight!

[blackblocberniebros]

No! The fight IS justice. Justice consists of the victim delivering a well-deserved fist to their assailant. Some investigation and punishment afterward will only ever be a second-best outcome, unless in those (admittedly quite common) situations where there’s confusion about who actually did what and who’s responsible.

The partisans shooting Mussolini and the liberated Jews who picked up a cane and beat up their former SS captors were better deliverers of justice than the war crimes tribunals as far as I’m concerned.

[argumate]

Extreme cases make bad principles; concentration camp guards directly committing heinous crimes are clearly asking for it, yes. But that’s hardly the typical case of political violence, is it.

And ideally we would have both more and better war crimes tribunals; Saddam Hussein may have deserved the noose, but it should have been for a clear accounting of his crimes, not because he was overthrown by a different gang of thugs.

[mitigatedchaos]

“The fight IS justice!” says political Tumblr user, “but any unpunished incorrect state violence is too much.”

Yeah, that’s just acceptance of a minimal level of violence by another name. Confusion of who intiated what violence and/or manipulation by social adepts is the dominant case, not the edge case.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[blackblocberniebros]

While I’m all for “self-criticism” of antifascists who go too far and use excessive violence or attack innocent people, that’s necessary and too often ignored, it’s worth noting no leftists have killed anyone in the US in decades, while the far right are killing people every couple of weeks now.

[argumate]

this kind of accusation, while tempting, gets awkward because it sort of relies on pushing all the violent people out of the category “leftist” and all the non-violent people out of the category “far right”, resulting in what is basically a tautology.

but at least we can all agree that killing is bad

[blackblocberniebros]

I mean if you wanna include reactionary black nationalists under the category of leftist, that’s understandable even if I wouldn’t include them. They’re monstrous and have killed innocent people.

But if you ask me, and no one did, it’s the very logic of nationalism that leads to aimless murder, the viewing of entire ethnic groups as The Enemy and therefore legitimate targets, and it’s why actual anarchists and socialists in the US, who are internationalists, rarely if ever kill innocent people.

[argumate]

entire classes as the enemy and therefore legitimate targets is a thing too, even if ethnic hatred certainly does suck.

[mitigatedchaos]

All we need is a revolutionary vanguard, and-

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

You can’t fight evil with bullshit

[realsocialskills]

Donald Trump has spent years telling outrageous lies. He’s continued to do so since assuming office, even lying about obviously verifiable things like what he’s tweeted about or the size of his inauguration crowd.

He is attacking the idea that truth matters, and trying to make people give up on telling the difference between the truth and a lie. This is dangerously disoriented.

In order to stay oriented, we need to care what’s true. This is easier said than done. In the short term, bullshit is often much more politically convenient than the truth. In the long term, if we create a world in which the truth doesn’t matter, we will end up defenseless. 

We need to keep in mind that being on the right side doesn’t make everything someone might say true. Good people can tell lies. Good people can get things wrong. Their goodness doesn’t make the lie true. 

Being marginalized doesn’t mean that someone always knows what they’re talking about. Being oppressed doesn’t make people infallible; being wrong doesn’t make someone privileged. 

Similarly, not every rumor about a bad person is accurate. Lies told about a bad person are still lies. (And not everyone who has a bad reputation is actually a bad person.)

Be careful about spreading rumors. Learn to recognize fake news, and avoid spreading it. If something doesn’t sound true to you, ask for citations or investigate. Everyone can be wrong, and you don’t have to believe anyone without being persuaded that they are right. Evidence matters, arguments matter. (And being a good person isn’t a substitute for either.)

You can’t fight evil with bullshit. In order to fight evil, we have to care what’s true. 

[mitigatedchaos]

The rivals have been lying/bullshitting/misrepresenting/omitting a lot in their attacks on Trump.  Every time I go and investigate one of the claims, I come back less trusting of the media and less trusting of the left and liberals, instead of more.

But it’s growing less surprising every day, since why was I ever foolish enough to think the Left and Liberals weren’t every bit the truth-apathetic political operatives as their rivals, when correct only correct by coincidence and not by process?

And I don’t mean to say that Trump is great, because he isn’t, but one can’t beat him on his level.  He lives there.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[funereal-disease]

how dare you call me out like this

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

The future of meme warfare lies in staging fake corporate versions of memes in order to discredit them.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[the-grey-tribe]

Anyway, before I miss out on the other discourse going on: Piper Harron has basically said that universities need to fire white mathematicians, because WOC have no chance to be hired to do math otherwise.

Problematic?

Or super problematic?

[mitigatedchaos]

No. Woke.

[the-grey-tribe]

Dammit! Are you sure?

[mitigatedchaos]

Does she look white to you? Woke.

Granted, I was just shitposting and hadn’t checked first, but this whole edge case wokeness thing has been more stupid than politics in general so it seemed like a good guess. Of course if a white man said the same thing it would be a sign of his racism, but SJ informally asserts that truth value is based on race, sex, and orientation of the speaker, so…