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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
collapsedsquid
collapsedsquid

I remain confused by this idea that “we need to take away their citizenship“ as a punishment or maybe precaution for various things.

Have they committed a crime?  Is there going to be some sort of due process?  If they have and there is, why isn’t jailing them sufficient?  What problem does this solve?

mitigatedchaos

Depends.  Whose status is being revoked?

Foreign nationals immigrating to a nation on the pretext that they are not terrorists or criminal scum prove that they lied on their immigration forms by committing crimes, thereby removing the conditions under which citizenship was offered in the first place.

What sacrifices are you willing to make to stop Rotherham?  FGM?  Acid attacks?  Turks creating a political party denying the Armenian Genocide because Erdogan told them to?

politics
ranma-official
afloweroutofstone

Jesus Christ

When talking about his death penalty sentence, Timothy McVeigh said that it wasn’t a victory for the government, because “[i]n the crudest terms: 168 to 1.”

ranma-official

fuck, he made a “still a good K/D ratio” joke before videogames started doing these

mitigatedchaos

Where does “harvest the blood of those who kill more than three people in order to force them to pay back their debt in lives to society whether they want to or not, and if not fit for this purpose, use them to test the safety of experimental drugs” fit on the political compass?

ranma-official

opinions that sound good at first glance but go really wrong gradually, so bottom right

let’s do organ repo as an example because Niven did this.

with regular sentencing, there’s “guy goes to jail if I say he’s guilty, guy goes free if I say he’s not”. with organ repo “guy gets disassembled for organs that go to sick people if I say he’s guilty, guy goes free and sick people are deprived of organs if I say he’s not”, which is a massive externality orthogonal to whether the guy is actually guilty or not and will inevitably pressure people towards harsher sentences and even disassembling the innocent.

mitigatedchaos

Honestly I know it’s not actually a good idea for any existing government, but this kind of thing pisses me off.  I want such crimes to ultimately be rendered futile, and if the new incentives lead all such persons to commit suicide during the criminal act that saves society the expense of a trial.

A more ideal state would be able to carry this out in such a way that it’s unclear if this is what is really occurring or if they’re life imprisoning them or just taking them out back and shooting them.  On top of that other evidence of whatever message they wanted to get out or fame they wanted to achieve would be erased or compromised by hoaxes.  The death of martyrdom.

Too bad there’s no government that can be trusted enough for that.

Source: afloweroutofstone suicide cw violence cw
ranma-official
afloweroutofstone

Jesus Christ

When talking about his death penalty sentence, Timothy McVeigh said that it wasn’t a victory for the government, because “[i]n the crudest terms: 168 to 1.”

ranma-official

fuck, he made a “still a good K/D ratio” joke before videogames started doing these

mitigatedchaos

Where does “harvest the blood of those who kill more than three people in order to force them to pay back their debt in lives to society whether they want to or not, and if not fit for this purpose, use them to test the safety of experimental drugs” fit on the political compass?

Source: afloweroutofstone cruelty
ranma-official
mitigatedchaos

@ranma-official: It’s actually great because it would look like you don’t ever get angry about anything

But then no one knows what happens when you get angry, so you can’t leverage it as a threat.  Your only two options are to do nothing or delete your enemies, depending on just how deep your deletion goes.

It works as a plot twist for the story, however.  The real reason the superheroes always win despite super powers being so arbitrary is because the Dark Suit removes anything that could truly defeat them from existence.

superhero ethics
silver-and-ivory
silver-and-ivory

Several people on rattumb have discussed the theory of race as spurred by a class-based desire to divide workers. They’ve been generally somewhat baffled by it, and I’d like to explain more, because I don’t know if they’ve heard the full version.

The theory goes like this.

In the 17th century South, poor whites (mainly indentured servants at this time) and blacks tended to work together and at times had children together. They possessed an amount of camaraderie and solidarity. In fact, they had so much solidarity that they started a rebellion arguing for more land and stronger defense called Bacon’s Rebellion. While eventually put down, the rebellion spooked the planter class.

The planters realized that indentured servants were much too unruly and likely to cause trouble; from this point forwards the percentage of indentured servants in the Southern colonies dropped while the percentage of slaves increased.

Moreover, as more slaves arrived, the color line started to develop. Laws deliberately separated blacks and whites, preventing intermarriage and imposing restrictions on blacks, thereby creating servitude as a racial institution in the American South.

The development of the initial color line in America was likely based on the planter class’s desire to exploit and retain control as a divide-and-conquer tactic. Later capitalists would use the system to their advantage after it had been established.

mitigatedchaos

I’ve been thinking about this for a while since I started being more interested in politics again (and more Nationalist).  Bloody Southern Plantation owners managed to cost this country an enormous amount of blood and treasure through their sloth, create an entire ethnic group (with bonus ethnic tension) within the country where one didn’t exist before, and create problems that we’re still dealing with the fallout of over two hundred years later.

I still wouldn’t alter the timeline if I could because this timeline is guaranteed to avoid thermonuclear war until at least 2017 (also because literally rewriting history would constitute mass murder), but if we could fork another one off, I’d love to see what America could become if a few key figures could be prevented from starting the country down this path.

I’m not sure how accurate this representation of events is, though.

race politics chronofelony
silver-and-ivory
silver-and-ivory

Every time that I’ve talked about feeling white guilt and in general being seen as a white person, people have said things like, “But… aren’t you Asian?”

And they’re right to say that, to be clear! It’s really shitty to reduce Asians to Basically-White if they disagree with you, and I appreciate everyone who pointed the gross unfairness of this action out.

But at the same time I feel like they’re missing the point. For all intents and purposes, as someone who’s been adopted across racial lines, I am white. I am white-cultured. I am Western-cultured. I’m American in my individualism and my perspectives.

And that feels wrong to ignore as well.

When kyriarchy tries to cleave reality at inexact and ill-defined fault lines, people rightly object. Categories don’t cut neatly; there are always people who queer binaries by their very existence. Forcing them to Choose a Side rarely works out well.

The same applies to sj. I’m racially Chinese and ethnically white-American; you can’t discredit the white part of me without also ignoring and erasing the Chinese part, and you can’t pedestalize the Chinese part without ignoring and erasing the white part.

Under white supremacy, either my white-American ethnicity is celebrated and my Chinese race is “excused” (and erased), or my white-American ethnicity is erased and my Chinese race is denounced. Under the reverse discourse, either my Chinese race is celebrated while my white-American ethnicity is “excused” (and erased), or my Chinese race is erased and my white-American ethnicity is denounced.

Sj must not forget intersectionality. It must not forget that identities lead to complicated intersections that are inseparable from each other. It must deconstruct and replace kyriarchal categories rather than enforcing them.

I’m not American+Chinese. I’m Chinese American.

mitigatedchaos

I propose a model in which power is represented and analyzed as a graph of relationships between individuals, where nodes represent individuals and weighted directed edges represent power relationships.

Relationships that effect groups can then be observed and measured without reducing all members of those groups into indistinct blobs where all members are considered interchangeable, or venn diagram intersections.

Edit: May also be of interest to @theunitofcaring.

identity politics gender politics race politics