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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
bambamramfan
bambamramfan

If you are a Christian trying to respect the dehumanized subject, then locking them up for 60 years and forgetting about them is not an ethical way to go about it. This makes disavowal easy, which is the heart of liberal ideology.

At least with the death penalty, society has to make a conscious choice about what to do with this person. We should choose rehabilitation and redemption much more often than we usually do of course, but it’s better to decide between rehabilitation vs death, than blithe imprisonment where we get to pretend we are respecting human rights but don’t ever have to deal with the murderer’s inhuman excess.

(that’s from me, not Zizek.)

A reminder because of the Dylan Roof case.

(demonesss’s comment is also good and she’s a good user to follow on reddit if you want to understand more Zizek)

mugasofer

Empirically, I don’t think abolishing the death penalty does lead to harsher sentences and de-emphasising reformative justice. 

If anything, the opposite seems to be true.


Frankly, if you force “society” (i.e. people) to “decide between rehabilitation vs death” in specific cases rather than the general case, they will say “the guy murdered nine people in order to start a race war, fry him”. 

Deliberately forcing people to focus on the specific, abhorrent crimes of an individual - rather than the abstract question of whether mercy is good, the fact that the death penalty ensures innocent people will be killed, what kind of society we want to be etc. - makes it easier for them to argue “some people are an exception to the general rule that killing is bad, fry the fucker.”

bambamramfan

Well we can use today’s example. We are talking about Dylan Roof. The various recent shooters who just got jailtime, the media is not discussing. And yet, if you throw them away for decades, then we are committing social death to them. I do not feel hugely morally superior for “suffer the rest of your life behind bars” than I do for “the body dies immediately.” I honestly don’t know which one I would choose personally, but both sound utterly terrible. And I’m glad we are at least talking about one convict this week. Death forces us to confront the choices of our justice system. (Much like the argument for, say, using soldiers over drones.)

Mostly though, a lot of the liberal arguments against the death penalty, especially the more principled ones, don’t really hold weight. Some people justify it with “the government shouldn’t hold power over life and death,” but that sounds like avoiding the fact that the government does hold power over life and death. The idea “well if it’s a mistake then you can still fix it” should be weighed against “and how many mistakes do we ever catch? How many lives does that save?” And is a life really not ruined after years behind bars, even if you fix the mistake?

I distrust our desire not to take the full account of our actions. Events that make us say “Do we really want to do this, as a people?” seem like good discussions to have.

mitigatedchaos

You might not know whether to pick death or life imprisonment, but I suspect many others would pick life imprisonment with a slim possibility of release over death.  I certainly would.  

Death is extremely final.  There are no libraries in death.  There are no thoughts, no dreams - nothing.  There is a very large difference between life in prison and death.  Calling it “social death” obscures the issue.

I agree that forcing the issue - by say, eliminating prison sentences beyond 20 years and replacing them with death - would tend to reduce empathy for prisoners rather than increase it.  There are a lot of people that people just won’t feel safe around, so now they’re going to be coming up with excuses to dehumanize criminals so they can justify executing them.  It’s not going to suddenly make them reason more clearly about the side effects.

I’m not so sure this idea that forcing people to confront things will actually change their behavior the way you want, rather than causing them to double down.  Is there any evidence for it working previously?

politics

@bambamramfan

Regarding my disdain for talking about “Contradictions in Capitalism”:

My choice of animals as an example was quite deliberate.  The idea that “contradictions” within a system will collapse it is in contrast to how systems are physically realized.  This world is chock full of animals that are slowly destroyed by the very same chemical processes that enable them to live and grow in the first place.  Some aspects of aging, particularly ones aimed at preventing unregulated cell multiplication, are most likely anti-cancer mechanisms.  Cancer itself could be read similarly - the same mechanisms of cell replication we depend on to exist will almost inevitably become corrupted through prolonged use and environmental damage and eventually turn on us.

Other things that are contradictory on the surface may be, at deeper levels, attempts to adapt to physical constraints.

So, to me, talking about “contradictions in capitalism” feels a lot like saying “hah, that elephant is a product of cell replication, but cell replication will eventually destroy him!”  It doesn’t feel like any sort of deep insight, and despite the inevitable destruction of the original elephant, elephants continue on anyway.

One might as well talk about “Contradictions in Communism” as applied to mere human beings at that rate.  If systems are actually destroyed through internal systematic/philosophical contradictions, then surely it must have them.

(Someone actually ideologically committed to Capitalism on a moral level, rather than someone who considers it an amoral (not immoral) resource allocation algorithm to be cynically used, would be better-suited to fishing out “Contradictions in Communism”.  I don’t think in a “Contradictions in X” way about systems generally, so I never bothered to cache such things.)

Any replacement system will still require profit of some kind, since circumstances inevitably vary, and without net profit you’ll have to eventually eat into your capital during tough years, until it is finally depleted.

politics communism capitalism
bambamramfan
itsbenedict

i’m worried about the future of humanity because of Trump, but not, like, in the usual way.

labor’s going to keep being more and more automated. right now, i’m working on writing medical records and appointment scheduling software, which will reduce the need for bookkeeping personnel at my aunt’s general practice. she has expressed excitement about how she’ll finally be able to fire all these people*. 

*(because she is delusional, she’s managed to twist herself into thinking it’ll be good for them, because they’ll be able to get a better job with this on their resume, and hasn’t considered the myriad reasons why they don’t just leave right now if that’s actually the case. in her defense(?) she hasn’t had to apply for any kind of work since presumably residency after medical school, and hasn’t experienced financial insecurity in thirty years, and is just generally disconnected from reality in a lot of ways.)

my job right now is to eliminate the jobs of as many people as possible. in like a month when i’ve finished the project i’m working on, i’ll have gotten at least two people fired as the explicit aim of my employment. this isn’t unusual, it isn’t part of some sci-fi future, it’s a real trend that is actively and earnestly being pursued by every company out there.

this ought to be a good thing. instead of this work taking up hours and hours of people’s time that they could be spending on other things, it gets done automatically. at least two people who get to now live lives of self-actualization!

except instead the result is now that the expired caviar rotting in the back of my aunt’s fridge is going to be moderately fancier.

which, okay, whatever. in principle, there’s nothing wrong with investing in a thing and profiting from it. she doesn’t owe those people anything, they didn’t pay me to build the software, she did. sure. this is just one sorta delusional old lady using her power greedily and wastefully.

my aunt is motivated by an unnecessary sense of frugality borne of an impoverished childhood, by a tragic susceptibility to marketing for fancy gourmet premium rich people food, and by a disconnect from the economic reality of what she’s doing to her workers. she’s not one of the better human beings, but she’s human.

but this isn’t the usual case.

the usual case is a manager needs to protect the bottom line or he’ll get fired, by another manager who needs to protect the bottom line or he’ll get fired, by […] fired, by a CEO who takes orders from a board of directors (or he’ll get fired) who need to protect the bottom line or else investors will panic and they’ll lose all their money and the company will collapse and die because it was outcompeted by a company that did ruthlessly automate as much labor as possible. the obscene profits companies are pulling in aren’t going into the pockets of wealthy CEOs, they’re being fed into the desperate struggle to keep their numbers going up as fast as is theoretically possible because only the companies with the highest numbers escape destruction.

the human race is currently ruled by the blind desperate “greed” of people who need to do what it takes to survive (plus governments that are basically the same thing except instead of shareholders with money it’s an increasingly unstable mix of lobbyists with money and taxpayers with votes.)

we’re going to reach a point, eventually, where enough labor is automated that the value of most human labor is going to plunge beneath subsistence. it’s already happening, with the whole $15 minimum wage controversy. it’s only going to get worse- working two or three minimum-wage jobs at once is going to go from barely enough to live on to just plain NOT enough to live on, and eventually the unemployed aren’t just going to be a tiny unskilled underclass that looks at a glance like it’s basically the same economic entity as the historical unemployed class. 

it’s going to be a voting bloc, and then we’ll have to fall back on Democracy, our last flimsy line of defense that keeps the inhuman, perfectly efficient optimizer that is the Market at bay. we’ll have one last chance to say “we, as humans, are going to decide what human civilization is going to look like.”

i don’t know if we’re going to win that battle.

the inhuman perfectly efficient optimizer doesn’t sit idly by when it’s threatened by democracy. voters can be fooled, can be bought, can be intimidated into silence. Exxon Mobil CEO Rex Tillerson is the United States president-elect’s nominee for Secretary of State. said president-elect is- i mean, it’s Donald god damn Trump, aka the media’s poster child for cartoonish fat cat excess and ruthless profit-optimizing for the past thirty fucking years. the opponent he barely defeated was Hillary Clinton, who’s not exactly known for being tough on big business. the runner-up hail mary third option that gets laughed out of the polls for caring too much about human freedom is the Libertarian Party.

that’s not the end of the world right now, we’re not quite at the stage where we need to once and for all decide whether to be ruled by Moloch… but the fact that it happened is a terrible terrible omen, when it comes to how we’re going to fare in that final fight.

i don’t know how it’s going to go down. i don’t know, once more than half the voting populace is reduced to below subsistence, what the Market is going to pull out of its sleeve to somehow defeat Democracy in its own most desperate hour. i can’t imagine what it could possibly come up with, when backed against the wall and forced to make the tiniest space for the happiness of the human race.

i can’t imagine it, because i’m one guy whose family isn’t about to starve if he doesn’t imagine up with a way to subvert democracy and have it on the boss’s desk by yesterday, dammit. 

mitigatedchaos

I think a lot of people just plain don’t realize this yet. They should realize it, but it takes a certain amount of imagination applied to come up with it on one’s own.

This is why I shove the existence of robot cars into every fiscal conservative’s face whenever I get the chance and try to convince them that it won’t end there. Some of them say “well we shouldn’t develop AI then”, so I tell them that the Chinese will regardless. It seems to be kind of sinking in so far - they haven’t yet realized that Capitalism isn’t a moral system.

Source: itsblehnedict
maxiesatanofficial
maxiesatanofficial:
“ konkeydongcountry:
“ dykewithadick:
“ marsdidthething:
“ the-future-now:
“ US Army wants bullets that turn into plants over time “ The US military may not seem like the greenest of organizations, but if rising seas and...
the-future-now

US Army wants bullets that turn into plants over time

The US military may not seem like the greenest of organizations, but if rising seas and temperatures produce worldwide chaos, they’re the ones that have to deal with that shit.

marsdidthething

aww now they get to slaughter people while planting trees, how considerate

dykewithadick

Especially ironic considering the US military is one of the biggest polluters in the world and joining it is a great way to get you and your family filled with all sorts of weird cancers

konkeydongcountry

banksy is gonna have a field day with this shit

maxiesatanofficial

“if rising seas and temperatures produce worldwide chaos, they’re the ones that have to deal with that shit.”

they literally aren’t. there’s no reason the u.s. army “has to deal with that shit.” they are quite possibly the worst-equipped organization in the world to “deal with that shit.” jesus fucking christ.

mitigatedchaos

Cleaning it up?  No.  Getting into wars when it crashes geopolitical stability?  Yes.

politics
argumate

Anonymous asked:

Sonic-the-hedgehog or Robin-hood era childhood-influence-furries had to go through the hassle of learning art skills to get good pictures of their OC's, and had to deal with the early internet. Zootopia-childhood-influence furries will just be able to have a neural net generate their own hi-res 3d models for virtual reality chat. Cubs these days, I tell ya.

argumate answered:

Wearing augmented reality goggles so that everyone you interact with is furry

mitigatedchaos

But how does the algorithm decide which animals to furry-fy the non-furries with?  Sounds discriminatory already.

mitigated aesthetic
esoteric-hoxhaism
slavojzyzzek

it has been pointed out to me that I’m the only white guy left at this party but honestly I’m used to it

slavojzyzzek

she read the replies to this post and didn’t get either of them and tbh neither do i

mitigatedchaos

I will avoid the temptation to double down on being confusing. Your post can either be read as about a literal party, or as a metaphorical party, which could include a town, a political party, a team, a heist, a situation, a final last desperate stand against the iron hand of the state, etc. (“White guy” can also be read metaphorically.) Plus it implies this is normal for your life.

bambamramfan
collapsedsquid

For a long time, I’ve thought that capitalism would not work if people screwed each over as much as was economically and self-interestedly rational, and Matt Yglesias just pointed out that Donald Trump is basically living proof that most people are far too generous in that they actually pay their suppliers instead of just cheating them. 

“Reputation“ don’t do jack shit, and whenever people propose make economic arguments using reputation, I’m gonna be very doubtful.

isaacsapphire

“Reputation” is more of an honor culture thing. If it works, it works because of a fairly small market and good communication.

bambamramfan

It’s not that “reputation does work because if you don’t pay them it will bite you in some way eventually” or “reputation doesn’t work because you can still get elected goddamn President even if you never pay them” but rather reputation is a bad pillar to rely on because you will never know how effective reputation is. It’s not like if Hillary had gotten a few thousand more votes in midwestern swing states, the entire mechanism of capitalism would have shifted from effective to ineffective. There’s just uncertainty.

mitigatedchaos

Suppliers can also adapt to more uncertain markets where payment is less guaranteed, either by raising rates, charging halfway through completion, having the money put in a mediator’s account, or through other methods.

All of these options are less efficient than if the purchaser pays the vendor like they are supposed to, because security spending preserves value rather than creating it.  However, the word is that companies working with Trump started to charge more money as a risk premium for this sort of thing.

When I was working on projects, I charged payment in stages.  The goods were transferred following a live demonstration for the client.

Source: collapsedsquid