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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
bambamramfan
johnbrownsbodyy

This is a pretty good article about the town next to the one I grew up in. I knew the young mayor, who is quoted in the article, as an even younger man, goofy and occasionally annoying to me, but definitely a good dude. I dated his sister and their family always made me feel accepted.

But there’s no hope here. Delphi is slightly bigger than my town, but it shrinks every year. As the article points out, there is an incredible generational gap here. It’s not just that the town is run down and kind of boring (beautiful as it actually is), there are also less and less opportunities to scrape a living out of the dirt or off the factory floor. There are sharp racial divisions as well, which this article doesn’t explore. The hog processing plant mentioned in the article employs a lot of immigrants and there is certainly some lingering resentment toward them, maybe for supposedly taking some of the few jobs, maybe for their inability or refusal to integrate. Probably both. The entire county is sharply segregated.

I really encourage reading this if you have a while. Living in small town America, at least there in central Indiana, feels a lot like dying- because that’s what it is. It’s the slow withering death of hope and promise.

Of course I’m not saying that I don’t think it’s worth living there. Having just moved out to Sandy, OR from Portland, I can say that I’ve actually really missed living in a rural area. The truth is, life itself is looking more and more bleak no matter where you are, so you should just stay wherever feels like home.

isaacsapphire

I’ve lived in towns that were slowly dying and in economically vibrant towns. There’s a difference, in the psychology, in the politics, in everything.

And, on paper, on a meta level, the Left absolutely should have something to offer the citizens of failing local communities.

But, the Left didn’t.

And, Indiana feels like dying, and it feels like nobody cares.

marcusseldon

I mean, what could the left have offered these communities that they didn’t already offer (even if they potentially failed to deliver on due to divided government)?

The standard Democratic politician supports more infrastructure spending, renegotiating trade deals, bolstering unions, job re-education programs, more funding for public schools (which would probably disproportionately benefit poor rural areas that can’t easily fund their own schools), bailing out the car manufacturers, tax incentives for rural development, more access to health care, and the (broadly defined) welfare state.

Sure, these communities probably were going to economically decline anyway even if all those policies were done 100% as their designers had hoped, but I don’t see anything short of extremely inefficient and absurd crony capitalist subsidies for companies to stay put and absurd regulations against automation saving these towns economically, and if those things were done they would amount to basically be a very large (indirect) handout for the very same people who despise handouts when smaller amounts of money than it would take to save these towns are given to black and brown people in the cities who are also struggling and feel like nobody cares.

Which is why I can’t help but conclude that the resentment of the left of these rural flyover communities is more (though not entirely) cultural/racial/religious/ethno-nationalist.
bambamramfan

It’s true there’s nothing (ie, not a lot) reasonable that technocratic center-leftism can offer dying communities. And because the Democratic party has a lot of fact-checking instincts that prevents outright lying, there’s not much they would.

But you don’t need to resort to ulterior motives to understand that people will vote for the party that DOES offer a solution (even if its a lie) over the one who says “we can’t solve your problem.”

And if a significant politically-dominant block of your country has an insoluble problem, then guess what, your country will keep voting for outright liars until something resolves their crisis.

A lot of the Trump angst focuses too much on specific American factors or the moral failings of various politicians in not reacting appropriately (it’s not the fault of Democratic messaging or their various small ball policy proposals). But we can see with the rise of an isolationist far-right across among almost every developed Western country, that it’s a fundamental reaction to trends across the whole world in the last few decades.

marcusseldon

I should clarify that I don’t think economic distress is not a factor in this, it absolutely is. Maybe I downplayed it above. I believe that it is a necessary condition for the rise of the populist-nationalist-isolationist right. It doesn’t seem to be sufficient to explain what has happened, though. Especially when poor immigrants and poor racial and religious minorities aren’t flocking to these populist parties despite equal or greater economic distress. Especially when it seems like education rather than income is more predictive of support of support for these parties.

There are a lot of lefty politicians who will pretend that technocratic center-leftism will save these communities, and offer it up as a solution, and yet that wasn’t the message that resonated. I don’t think (most of) these people are racist or xenophobic, at least not in the harsh colloquial sense of those words, but I just can’t explain Trump or Brexit or LePen or Alternative for Germany without there being some sort of intense cultural/demographic anxiety involved (not all of which is irrational, I do think for instance that Germany probably took in too many refugees). Why this anxiety crosses borders is simply that, for good and for ill, globalization and neoliberalism allow for more cultural and demographic change than is normal in the west.

bambamramfan

Yeah for certain there are a lot of center-left politicians offering lamppost solutions* when none might exist. And as we saw from America to Greece, much of the technocratic establishment is extremely eager to knee-cap far-left parties which precludes finding out whether their solutions would quell this uprising.

But the answer might be nihilism. In a society structured on identity-through-job, modernity (including increasing financialization, free trade, and automation) might just kill enough communities that the entire democratic consensus falls apart. I think it’s important to remove “having a job” as a necessary part of social identity (both for individuals and emergent structures like small towns) in the face of this capitalist revolution, but that’s not exactly easy to implement as a federalized governing agenda.

*As in when a drunk loses his keys on the street at night, and assumes they are under the lamppost, because if they aren’t he can’t find them anyway.

mitigatedchaos

Wage subsidies might have been able to do the trick, and economists like them.  They don’t seem to be on anyone’s radar, however, and the EITC is yearly which isn’t often enough to work.  

Some part of me suspects the reason they aren’t on peoples’ radars is that rural whites were used as the fulcrum for identity politics, but maybe they’re simultaneously too boring while being too left wing.

Source: johnbrownsbodyy politics policy
aellagirl
aellagirl:
“I don’t know exactly what to make of this. Any thoughts?
”
If it were representative (it probably isn’t - but it might be worth it to try and do one that is), it suggests that the theory that (typical) women are highly interested in the...
aellagirl

I don’t know exactly what to make of this. Any thoughts?

mitigatedchaos

If it were representative (it probably isn’t - but it might be worth it to try and do one that is), it suggests that the theory that (typical) women are highly interested in the *status* of their partners, and want a partner of equal or higher status to themselves.

This could cause weird side effects if it’s true at the large scale.  For instance, if women don’t want to marry a man that earns much less than they do, but are perfectly fine marrying a man that earns a lot more, then the logical thing for straight men to do is to work more hours in paid employment.  (This happens to be what straight men actually do.)

gender politics gender
argumate
argumate

you: eww, I don’t want chemicals in my food!

an intellectual: everything you eat is made of chemicals.

another intellectual: “chemicals” as used in colloquial speech typically refers to isolated compounds created by industrial processes that are not commonly found in the natural environment, some of which we know are toxic to humans and have been banned for use in food production and some of which we still use but suspect are not conducive to good health.

policy discourse
wirehead-wannabe
funereal-disease

Why do so many people continue to insist that not telling your partner you once did sex work before you even met them is tantamount to some massive betrayal? 

“But funereal-disease,” they keep saying, “what if I didn’t want to date a sex worker? I have a right to make an informed decision about staying in a relationship.” Indeed you do, but where do you draw that line? How many personal sexual details must someone divulge before their partner’s consent is sufficiently informed? Is it a betrayal if you’ve had an STI in the past? If you’ve attended an orgy? If you’ve experimented with people outside your orientation? If you’ve engaged in a kink that you know your partner finds repulsive? Once you’ve coupled up, are you no longer allowed private memories? 

Apparently not when it comes to sex, because sex work, according to the brain trust at reddit dot com slash relationships, isn’t just another part of one’s sexual history. It’s something inherently and irreversibly tainting. It’s something so all-consuming that not disclosing it means you’ve “tricked someone” into marriage. It’s a bait and switch, clearly: you expected a normal woman, but instead you got one of those icky sluts. Because if she’s capable of doing the unspeakable, of ~selling her body~, then she’s obviously got nothing in common with the woman you thought you loved. Sex workers are never clever or funny or worth marrying on personal merits. Either she’s a worthwhile person or she’s a whore.  

light-rook-offtopic

I’m sure this is a part of it, but I’d also be kinda pissed if I was married to someone for 5 years and I found out through someone else that they were a geophysicist for 3 years and had somehow avoided the topic of the entire time we were together. How you sell your labour is a weirdly significant part of your identity, and it would definitely feel like a significant omission: what else is she hiding? Infidelity? Drug Trafficking? A pivotal role in the end of the Weimar Republic?

It’s less the fact that she didn’t tell him and more the fact that it seems that it probably took intentional effort on her part to hide it from him.

Which is not even to mention that if it’s something you could easily be blackmailed for (as it sounds like she might be being threatened here based on the comments) that’s definitely something that should come up before the “joint tax returns” part of the relationship.

funereal-disease

Sex work is orders of magnitude more stigmatized than geophysics, though. I don’t think hiding something you’re likely to be marginalized for and likely to be suffering internalized shame about is indicative of an inherently deceitful personality. If my partner, after almost four years, came out to me as bi, I wouldn’t wonder what else he was hiding, because being closeted out of shame and/or necessity isn’t the same as enjoying deceiving others. 

1nsomnizac

it seems to me that even without the stigma of sex work, the original problem of how much you must divulge to one’s partner before sex is a problem of guessing the relevance of one’s personal information to a partner. is my lack of sexual history relevant? is my disability? my job history? ideally, if someone’s consent is contingent on information, they should seek it out before engaging in the activity, right? granted, i don’t know how practical that is.

funereal-disease

ideally, if someone’s consent is contingent on information, they should seek it out before engaging in the activity, right?

THIS. If having particular information is very important to you, ask! 

wirehead-wannabe

I still feel like there’s a lack of easy ways to enumerate every possible thing I want to know about a partner.

When was the last time you were tested?
Have you ever killed anyone?
Are you a werewolf?
Etc etc.

I’m all for changing the expected set of questions based on broader social trends (like the more recent move towards assuming by default that a person shouldn’t be expected to disclose being trans unless it’s explicitly mentioned as a deal breaker and they can do so safely) but it seems that there does need to be a list, even if it’s fuzzy and unspoken.

mitigatedchaos

Wouldn’t just asking if someone did sex work before be considered an insult by many people?  Along with asking them if they’re trans?

Source: funereal-disease