Oceans Yet to Burn — leafyhotdog: mitigatedchaos: leafyhotdog: ...

leafyhotdog

punlich

I can’t wait for liberals to go “ok we marched and we wore these cool hats now we’re done, we finished it, things will be fixed now”

mitoticcephalopod

See but that’s the reassuring thing, it means that people won’t actually be out in the streets assaulting random civilians for looking like nazis.

punlich

I’m sorry I can’t hear you over the beautiful sound of Richard Spencer’s glass jaw cracking under the force of glory-knuckled justice

mitoticcephalopod

why are you all like this

punlich

Because people keep asking me stupid loaded questions on my posts lmao

mitoticcephalopod

look I don’t want to live in a world where lots of people are roaming around looking to start fights with people who disagree on which batshit crazy political ideology they should implement, and I think you would too.

I’m annoyed at the liberals spamming “punch nazi” memes, but it’s reassuring to know that basically all of it is just posturing and signalling, and that most of them can’t be bothered to get off their asses to do the very things they advocate.

leafyhotdog

in? what? world? could? u? be? possibly? living? in? where? nazis? getting? attacked? isnt? something? to? cheer? for? ??? you act like this wasnt a known neo nazi that questions if jewish people are people and if black peoples “are neccessary” like lmao how about instead trying to act above violence you complain about the people calling for mass murder and genocide like??? messy messy messy

ranma-official

In this world.

you complain about the people calling for mass murder and genocide like

Tankies call for mass murder and genocide literally non-stop and unironically, yet they are on the other side of the fist for some reason. But they should not be. ///

leafyhotdog

i support them doing that tbh a fascist is a fascist, one should not and i mean never tolerate intolerance that bitch wants the government to control every aspect of peoples loves yeah she and anyone like her should be killed simple as that, theres no arguing their stupidity only crushing it

ranma-official

You missed the part where you people can’t tell who the Nazis are. “She must have been a Nazi anyways, right?”

leafyhotdog

“you people” who people??? pretty easy to tell whos a bigot when they down talk someone else for race or talk up their own as some sort of master race like??? no, its not hard to see whos arrogant and punishment of who is arrogant is more than good, also any liberals who wanna defend bigots on the basis of free speech can feel free to join the pile of bigoted garbage

mitigatedchaos

That is right, comrade. Anyone who questions our use of political violence is our enemy, and we must inflict political violence on them until the work camps swell with their numbers for the good of Communism. Only those who have already always ever agreed with us and those who are silent out of fear have virtue.

There is no possible way that expanding this sentiment of violence might have terrible consequences and get our regime labelled as one of history’s great monsters - after all, we are good Communists, and by definition, all monsters are counter-revolutionaries in disguise, right?

leafyhotdog

????? just saying man its not even an ounce of hard to tell whos a scumbag bigot and whos not and honestly? like i’ve said before yes antifa or whatever far left groups should make and maintain a more calm and organized look to the masses at large but actual nazi’s like spencer and his goons will always make up shit to legitimize their bigoted actions and someone going around questioning the humanity of other people based on imaginary shit like race needs not only their lights knocked out but their heads blown off plain and simple its not advocating violence it is 100% self defense against people calling for genocide

mitigatedchaos

Yes. Certainly, we must ignore all claims by the Fascists that any of their violence is a form of self-defense. As they are corrupted by the sick, twisted, and vile influence of Fascism, they must assuredly know that any such claims are complete fabrications. They are evil, and cannot be reasoned with, otherwise they would be good Communists like us - everyone knows Communism is true, deep in their hearts.

The defense of Communism is always an act of self-defense by the oppressed masses. And the best defense is a good offense. Until the last thoughts of Fascism have been purged from society, we must be ready to kill at a moment’s notice.

Anyone who doesn’t support killing all Fascists is also tainted by Fascism and must be killed. Recursively.

History will smile on us and our glorious revolutionary Communist wave. They will sing songs of our struggles. Our leaders will never be put side-by-side in textbooks with Adolf Hitler, used as a justification for why Communism must be destroyed and alienating the same working men and women we sought to protect. Completely impossible. We are the good guys, here. Definitely.

Source: punlich politics violence

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@leafyhotdog

hey does it feel good to be so passive aggressive against someone who calls for violence against those calling for genocide instead of the ones actually calling for genocide? cause its pretty fucking sad

Buddy, you and your friends are absolutely horrible at telling who is and is not “calling for genocide”, especially since you include anyone questioning the violence in your calls for violence - you wanted violence against “bigots” and said people against the violence were also “bigots”.

You can block me, but it’s the truth. The reason so many people are saying “hey, wait a minute” about this Punching Nazis thing is because we know that it doesn’t end there.

Maybe if it were enforced consistently and actually ended there we could tolerate it, but hey, “Racism is prejudice plus power, and <ingroup> have no power” people already exist, so realistically that is not going to happen.

politics violence leafyhotdog

argumate

Source: facebook.com politics violence

mutant-aesthetic

@lets-talk-about-politics replied to your link: Politico: I Found HanAssholeSolo’s anti-Semitic…

So this backlash, the death threats, the intimidation, the violence, all of that is justified?

The backlash in terms of people rightfully decrying CNN and raising cain, I think that’s a very good thing. Obviously the more extreme response I don’t condone, much in the same way I don’t condone a bear eating the drunk moron who tries to wrestle it. But much like trying to wrestle a bear while shitfaced, trying to police public discourse in the age of the internet has consequences, and reporters are not magically immune to the consequences of their extremely poor decisions.

We teach people that freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. We seem to forget, however, that the same thing applies to freedom of the press.

politics

mutant-aesthetic

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Julian Assange 🔹 on Twitter

“10/ Here's Singapore's long term prime minister Lee Kuan Yew:”

a-sleepygoldenstorm

What neither side of US politics wants to admit: the promotion of identity politics combined with the declining white super majority has led to turbo charged white identity politics. Since Dems catered for non-white identity politics, Trump and the GOP took hold of white identity politics.

Most countries that do not have a 70%+ super majority ethnic group have ethnicized electoral politics.

mitigatedchaos

Yes, my fear is that Lee Kuan Yew is right.

Source: a-sleepygoldenstorm politics torches in the night racepol

I actually suspect that the switch to identity politics over class politics may have been based on a growing ineffectiveness of class politics.

“BUT THE POOR!” lost ground as more cached arguments were built up against it, even if it wasn’t entirely justified.

“BUT RACISM!” still had a lot of bite and could circumvent some of those cached arguments. So, it’s natural to shift to it and build the platform around it.

It had a lot of bite, anyway.

There was always the focus on what was morally right, even in the minds of people who claimed they didn’t believe in morality, over what was effective policy, so now we get a lot of talk about guilt, or about pie in the sky ideas of “dismantling the systems of X oppression requires dismantling capitalism” (and people remember how “we need to dismantle capitalism” went last time), and not so much about “we should distribute multivitamins to the poor.”

I mean, that does sometimes get through, but the zeitgeist doesn’t seem to care about it as much as it cares about language policing and thinks that beneficial policies will just naturally unfold once everyone acknowledges their sin.

politics

sinesalvatorem

Anonymous asked:

It's not how white you are on the outside that counts, but how white you are, in your heart.

sinesalvatorem answered:

Leukemia is not actually a good thing, anon. If your blood is over-saturated with white cells then please seek medical assistance.

mitigatedchaos

I just saw an article last week suggesting that using identity politics in the US was a bad plan because the majority can practice identity politics, too, and the definition of “white” has expanded in the past.

I’m pretty hyped. What exciting new races or ethnic groups will be considered “white” in the future? Could Asian-Latin fusion cuisine become the next official white people food? When will they be issued their official White Man™ polo shirts?

race politics politics maybe a shtpost

argumate

Violence is a tool, it has a class nature. Our violence is good, because it is liberatory. Without violence, we cannot be liberated.

good to know.

mitigatedchaos

Communists - or White Nationalists?

We report, you decide.

shtpost politics

bambamramfan

marcusseldon

I said I’d talk about politics less, but I feel like I do need to get this out of my system.

There’s an idea going around both on my dash, and people I know in person, that the behavior of people on the left is what caused Trump to be elected. Different groups get the blame, whether it is rich white liberals in Silicon Valley, DC, and Hollywood, the campus left, black lives matter, internet SJWs and feminists, mainstream media journalists, late night comedians, or some combination of these, the theory goes that Trump was essentially a white working class middle finger to the condescension, radicalism, and disrespect toward traditional values of members of these various left-wing groups. People who put forward this theory say that to win back Trump voters, the left needs to be kinder, more compassionate, and less radical toward white working class (WWC) culture, values, and way of life. The claim is that if only the left were nicer to WWC people and respected their way of life more, Trump would have never even won a Republican primary, let alone an electoral college majority.

Now, leaving aside whether it would be personally moral and virtuous to be more compassionate and less radical toward the WWC (probably to at least some extent), I want to raise doubts about whether this perspective is actually useful for winning elections and defeating Trumpism.

No doubt many WWC people, and those sympathetic to them, feel condescended to, disrespected, and that their way of life is under attack by the left. There is also no doubt that there have been individuals and groups on the left that have been openly hostile to the WWC way of life, where “white male” is an insult, conservative Christians are publicly degraded and mocked, performative flag-waving nationalism is seen as not just gauche but stupid and hick-ish, and where white rural people are assumed to be personally racist and homophobic.

But, all political movements are going to have their assholes who degrade the other side and openly disrespect them. It’s easy to miss when you largely live in left-wing bubbles online and off, which I imagine is true of most people on my dash, and is certainly true of me, but the right has their own version of this, and it’s popular. There’s a post going around my dash about a condescending line in a Meryl Streep speech, and how this is an example of liberal condescension that created Trump, but I guarantee you that more people listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity on the radio every day than saw that Meryl Streep speech. And Limbaugh and Hannity on an almost daily basis disrespect, mock, and condescend to liberal constituencies, values, and ways of life. And guess what, Republicans still won.

People like Limbaugh and Hannity, not to mention Fox News and Breitbart, make their money by inflaming a sense of grievance and resentment of the left among the disproportionately rural, older, religious, and WWC Republican base. These outlets have far more political reach and power than random SJW blogs, the campus left, black lives matter, actors or tech billionaires giving speeches, or even late night comedians.

In the educated liberal bubbles that I and many people in my online and offline circles reside in, the reverse can seem true. It can seem like left-wing culture is omnipresent and the right is completely stifled by blacks lives matter, SJWs, and late night comedians. But in other circles, which comprise nearly half the country, the reverse is true.

In many ways, the left is already on net more compassionate to the WWC than the right is to left-wing constituencies. There were countless articles in left-wing outlets talking to Trump voters in order to understand and sympathize with Trump voters. I don’t think I’ve ever once seen an article in a right-wing outlet that went to Harlem, San Francisco, or Ann Arbor, trying to compassionately understand the motivations and lifestyle of people on the other side from their point of view.

So the idea that the left must hold itself to an even higher standard on compassion and than the right to win elections seems implausible to me (again, leaving aside whether holding ourselves to a higher standard would be more virtuous and moral).

Even if the left was nicer to the WWC, I don’t see that changing vote patterns, or making the WWC feel any less resentful and under attack. Suppose 90% of the left-wing people who are being blamed for the rise of Trumpism became nicer. The Limbaughs and Hannitys and Breitbarts of the world, and the millions who follow them, wouldn’t take a step back and say “you know, maybe the left doesn’t hate me or my way of life”. No. They would continue to cherry pick the worst examples, as they already do, from a smaller set of mean liberals in order to inflame cultural resentment and grievance among their followers, and they would also continue to see things that I think aren’t mean and are true that the left says, like that black people have a rougher relationship with the police than other groups, as offensive and attacking their dignity and way of life.

I’m not saying there’s no way to convince some of these people over to the left. But, pointing the finger at the meaner (and numerically smaller) strains of the left and thinking that if only for them being condescending and disrespectful we would be in a golden age of liberal dominance in politics doesn’t strike me as true or productive.

bambamramfan

So I get your frustration, and a lot of what you say is correct. It’s far too tempting to say “Hey leftists-who-disagree-with-me, YOU’RE the reason our enemy won!” without sufficient proof. That’s just opportunism.

And we should treat the WWC (and all of the WC) in this country with compassion, and we should help their material needs, regardless of whether it wins us elections. Trying to come up with political justifications for basic human decency is a bit creepy.

(Plus, not to mention a Far Right resurgence is occurring across the entire developed world. It seems very petty to blame that on a few annoying American liberals. There are deeper trends here.)

I feel you here.

However, there is some countervailing evidence here.

1. If we’re not being condescending to them, we should listen to what our enemies are saying. And in between accusations of corruption and defending the free market, Republican voters seem really, really upset about Political Correctness. Obsessed with it, and explicitly saying they support idiots like Trump just to defy Political Correctness.

You can dismiss what they say and come up with other reasons they voted the way they did (they just want to be racist, or economic anxiety) but then that is being patronizing because you aren’t really listening anymore. If you listen, Political Correctness is a huge deal to them, and teasing out the source of that sounds like a worthwhile endeavor.

2. A lot of this is just projection from some left-of-center allies about the illiberal tactics used by establishment social justice, such as extreme arrogance, dismissiveness, shallow analysis, using institutional power to punish dissenters, and a bunch of other mindkilling, groupthink tactics. Said allies (or, former allies) really hated those tactics, and so rejoice in blaming them for the defeat of the mainstream SJ candidate.

Projection is not a good source of analysis of course, and so they might be wrong that this really caused Trump’s victory. But said establishment really should pay attention to how many enemies it has, even “on its own side.” Their tactics are really ticking off their friends, causing dissension every step away. SJ can try to ignore this dissent and pain as long as they wield the hammer, but don’t be surprised when their enemies leap at any weakness as a chance to earn some rhetorical points.

Social justice has enraged and alienated conservatives, libertarians, moderates, socialists, communists, and artsy anarchists. At some point it will have no friends left except the business-friendly / socially liberal wing of a city-based party.

3. Something happened between 2012 and 2016. There’s some reason Republicans started really getting into unbridled rudeness and race-baiting. You can’t even wholly blame Trump for finally opening the floodgates, he tried in 2012. What the hell happened to make voters so much more racist, or at least racist-tolerant? It’s not like there are a lot more immigrants around or other normal causes of racial strife (let alone to explain the tolerance of crude sexual behavior.)

And to the unaided eye, one of the real changes of the past 4 years was the political visibility of intolerant liberalism. So it’s at least worth considering “the thing that changed in the last 4 years, is somewhat responsible for the rather different outcome this time around.”

mitigatedchaos

Regarding #1: If a 100% black company is okay, but a 100% white company “isn’t diverse enough”, this implies whites are inherently worth less than PoC. If women have equal beneficial capabilities to men, but men are uniquely violent and oppressive, this implies women are better than men.

I think people can feel this even if they don’t consciously realize it.

Also, as one of those alienated types, those tactics you mention make SJ a liability to me in many ways.

Source: marcusseldon politics gender politics race politics trump

avienbgwp

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trilllizard420

if you post someone’s address, job, full name, personal details, anything that’s doxing, there are only two things that you want people to do to them:

1) really mess with them to an insane extent, like ordering gay porn, perfume samples, religious books and hundreds of pizzas sent to their house and try to ruin their personal lives/get them fire

2) kill them

so don’t fucking do it

don’t dox people

libby-doe-mods-denofiniquity libby-doe-mods-denofiniquity

i want Nazi’s to get fired or worse

morseapple

i get this but there has already been one instances from last week were people got the wrong person and it could fuck up his whole life for something they didn’t do

trilllizard420

two instances, actually.

they got one of the wrong guys twice.

do you get that?

two people that are categorically NOT nazis got accused of being nazis by some half cocked dipshit on social media.

also fucking with nazis or trying to get them fired is categorically A Bad Idea.

I keep seeing this sentiment in the notes but don’t fucking do it

don’t feed into their victim narrative.

that’ll just push them further into extremism.

like, do you really think someone racist is gonna change their fuckin mind if they get fired because 5000 “undesirables” according to nazi doctrine get them fired?

do you think they’re suddenly magically gonna get a good attitude towards minorities that nazis have historically persecuted?

getting someone fired from a fucking hotdog job where they’re clearly miserable, probably not making much money in the first place ain’t gonna help.

not bein able to pay their bills will not teach them some sort of lesson, or the kind of lesson that would lead to them not being a fuckhead.

it’ll teach them

“these subhumans want you starving, want you to be unable to feed your families and want you dead”

WELL DONE

YOU JUST RADICALIZED A DUMBFUCK EVEN FURTHER

HE’S GOING TO GO DEEPER INTO EXTREMISM THANKS TO YOU, IDIOT

DON’T DOX PEOPLE

mutant-aesthetic

This is a major problem we as a society have with deradicalization. Like, you can’t exile someone from society and expect them to reform, it just further radicalizes them. People are social animals and need a network of healthy relationships so as to deradicalize. If you cut people off from the opportunity to build those relationships, you’re ensuring that the problem will never ever get fixed

avienbgwp

An excellent treatise on why prison doesn’t work. The nazis already are nazis with a network of relationships, likely with other nazis if they were in a gathering with other nazis. Are you suggesting the targets of nazis shoukld sit down and talk with people who literally want them dead. or else to literally do nothing?

mutant-aesthetic

Well I mean it worked for me, so yeah, pretty much.

avienbgwp

congratulations on not being a nazi anymore, not everyone is so quick to give it up.

mutant-aesthetic

Yeah, and your methods are only making the problem worse, so I’d appreciate it if you got out of the way.

avienbgwp

You don’t know my methods, or do you think dead nazis are more of a problem than alive ones?

mitigatedchaos

You are absolutely right, friend. The government must act to stop this epidemic of ideologically extreme vehicular homicide through every means possible. Driving into crowds is never forgivable.

Therefore every Jihadi and Jihadi sympathizer must be executed. No safe spaces for Jihadis. Their sick and twisted ideology offers no deconversion. The only good Jihadi is a dead Jihadi.

Liberals might protest that Jihadis don’t cause much violence, statistically, but the only voice Jihadis will listen to is violence.

Source: trilllizard420 satire politics racepol violence torches in the night

theunitofcaring

I think white supremacists lean really hard on the framing that they’re not destroying peaceful integrated multicultural societies, they’re just noticing that those never existed anyway or are about to collapse anyway.

And of course it’s a transparent lie. There are lots and lots of societies that have had successful peaceful integration. Racists and xenophobes are the force making integration difficult and dangerous and fragile; there’s not some other force that they are just innocently noticing. (Bad economic conditions and weak governments and violence all contribute to making racist and xenophobic movements more appealing. But it’s important to observe that the ‘failure of multiculturalism’ is still caused by the racists and xenophobes acting, it’s not something that happens separately from them.)

mitigatedchaos

Look, it’s true that Europe is not on the verge of a race war. They are not one more bombing away from all the white people mysteriously obtaining guns and launching a new “crusade” against the “saracens” amongst them. (They might be on the verge of the breakup of the EU.)

On the other hand, just because there is relative order does not mean things are as safe as they could be. What’s going on right now looks more like “ethnic tension.” When open Atheists get killed by vigilantes in Islamic countries it isn’t something you encounter on the street, usually. Likewise, when you see low-level violence it’s often going to be in low-SES areas, not where the tourists are. And, of course, that white guy making a van attack against seven random Muslims in response to van attacks by Muslims is more like an ethnic revenge killing in less-developed nations than a declaration of war.

And yes, it’s statistically improbable that you will be killed in the next concert bombing, and technically people should be more worried about falling furniture or whatever, but… The marginal costs are totally out of whack here, everyone knows these bombings are entirely unnecessary while it is pretty much inevitable that some people will die in furniture accidents no matter how hard you try.

Plus we all know that if the terrorists get their hands on an atomic bomb, they will vaporize New York. Furniture would never do this.

(We can also tell that the terrorism either isn’t really about stopping interference in the middle east, or that the terrorists are literally too stupid or ideological to realize what they’re doing isn’t working, because it has been very, very ineffective at that goal. Like, “the Bush Administration was able to get the American public to back the Iraq War” spectacularly ineffective. So “tolerate harder” is unlikely to stop it.)

Here is the problem. Multiculturalism as ideology makes for weak governments.

Wanting to maximize diversity is a non-sensical goal that should result in trying to create as many ethnic groups as there are people. All this “we need more diversity” and “celebrate diversity” stuff is like a religious law that was adaptive and then lost its usefulness but continued on because people didn’t follow it for its adaptiveness.

The real purpose of tolerance as a construct was to prevent continued justifications of war in Europe along religious lines, or something of that kind. It’s a social technology, not a virtue.

It is necessary to recognize the differences among cultures, and act accordingly. Liberalizing social atomization can only occur naturally if cultural forces/practices create the necessary environment.

With its “antiracism” and “decolonization” and opposition to assimilation, multiculturalism as ideology is actively preventing this.

You have to consider how different cultures propagate and support themselves. So that means, if you want to end this nonsense, well…

Ban cousin marriage, out to the second or even third degree. How exactly do these families keep such tight control on “their” women that they think that they own them? Well, being able to arrange marriages without even leaving the family might have something to do with it! Having to marry farther out means women must be given more freedom in practical terms, which will loosen and help eventually destroy their grasp.
Refuse to accept the legalization of polygamy. Polygamy is actually polygyny in practice usually, particularly in the countries these groups are coming from. The child marriage, patriarchal control of women, all of that flows from the gender ratio imbalance under polygamy. Polygamy is bad for women, it is bad for children, it is bad for wealth and for education. Even in the West.
Execute honor killers. Yes, I know, but we want to put the brakes on this now before it sticks. The key is to flip the social status of honor killers from “something those oppressive ethnic majority members stop us from doing and which we will resist” to “you’d have to be a fucking idiot to kill your sister and get executed for it.”
Make killing anyone for leaving a religion a hate crime. Again, it’s a method of control that prevents liberalizing atomization. If that isn’t enough, if people still kill others for leaving Islam, execute them.
Stiffer penalties for FGM and acid attacks. Not only are these methods that those communities use to reinforce their control and prevent atomization, but acid attacks have started catching on among the natives. Political pressure not to crack down on FGM must be stopped in its tracks before it can reach the critical theshold to be co-opted by political parties.

politics violence ban cousin marriage the iron hand

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