Should the left spend more time wording messages...

argumate

Anonymous asked:

Should the left spend more time wording messages to work on other emotions other than pity? For example, "increase immigration to Canada, because that is the most effective way to increase Canada's strength." (Targeted toward Canadians)

argumate answered:

There is a broader question here: to what degree are political movements about outcomes over emotional affiliations.

(And of course, “being about outcomes” is another emotional affiliation!)

mitigatedchaos

Keep in mind that people will see through these kinds of cynical ploys, Anon.

The Left (at least in the US) has parts that have been actively cheering for the death-by-aging and demographic destruction of the native population. The native population, quite frankly, has little reason to believe that movements that treat them as a fulcrum for leveraging the identity politics of all other groups will actually work for their benefit, so why should they believe them? Especially when increasing the supply of labor will increase their competition, not just for jobs, but also for real estate, etc? For that matter, why should they believe it’s in their interests to bring in immigrants on behalf of anti-assimilationists, who want a “salad bowl” instead of a “melting pot” model? Who have shown no reluctance to throw the word “racist” at any criticism of immigration? Who give free passes to actions influenced by foreign religions and ideologies that they wouldn’t to actions influenced by local ones?

Trust will have to be reestablished with actions, not branding. And reestablishing trust is costly. The Left must become willing to actually pay that cost.

Right now, I don’t see a reason to believe that will happen.

politics immigration

More you might like

2020

Just for the record, regarding immigration issues: I feel that the current rate of roughly 1,000,000 immigrants per year is roughly acceptable for the United States. (My statements elsewhere might have implied that I thought this was too high.) I’m not particularly worried about most of the categories of immigrants currently arriving in the US. I could be convinced for a higher number under certain conditions I won’t elaborate on now, partially because I don’t think they can credibly be offered due to political conditions in the United States, including ideological pre-commitments.

I predict at 80% that Trump will not lower the yearly immigration level below 800,000 by the year 2020.

I cannot accurately forecast the numbers on refugees. The Trump administration originally planned to be more selective about refugee groups (particularly persecuted religious groups that are religious minorities in their country of origin), so we may see them make a grab for Christian refugees from ISIS, supposing some sort of support infrastructure (such as American churches) were set up to take them. Alternatively, they may not, and the number of refugee admissions may crash. I predict at 60% that average annual refugee admissions from 2017-2020 will be lower than under the Obama administration.

I predict at 80% that there will not be a new American Middle Eastern war by 2020, so long as Trump remains President and there is no major attack on US soil, defined as an ideologically-motivated terrorist attack with a death count exceeding 100. (For the purposes of this prediction, American forces returning to Iraq and Afghanistan does not count as a new war.)

I predict at 80% that at least one more Sikh is going to get killed by some moron in America for ideological reasons before 2020.

I predict at 70% that one person will die from either Antifa violence, or violence by Antifa rivals by 2020, and this will make the national news. I predict at 90% that this will not be intentional.

politics predictions immigration

collapsedsquid

mitigatedchaos

Hell, why don’t we re-enact Sherman’s march and raze the US south, the southern US is full of shitty people with shitty politics. Maybe burn down all Mormon churches and compounds, they got both nasty shit going on and nasty politics.
I get you wanna piss your fuckin pants because it’s those dirty furriners doing those dirty furriner crimes, but horrible shit didn’t start with immigration and it won’t end when it’s cut off.

Things being bad is not a reason to make them worse. (This part of the problem with arguments about alcohol/drugs, too.)

We have no obligation to import these people. We do not have an obligation to import people that will make the country worse. We don’t have an obligation to tolerate criminal acts favored by their cultures, or tear our national social cohesion to shreds to tolerate those acts.

So some fringe groups of Mormons are still polygamists and practice shady things with young brides and that sort of thing. Oh look, Westerners doing a bad thing. Better import enough people that have similar practices so that it becomes normalized and gains political power! That’ll sure improve things! Yay justice!

but horrible shit didn’t start with immigration and it won’t end when it’s cut off.

How much FGM was happening in the US before it was imported? It won’t stop now if immigration is shut off only because we won’t literally kick all those who practice it out of the country.

Kicking out only individuals who are actually convicted of it is the individualist approach. And it makes sense. The preconditions for citizenship included not bringing foreign criminal/terrorist activity to this country. Those preconditions were violated.

In light of that, how does removing citizenship not make sense?

And I don’t really think the problem we have is “We don’t execute criminals grotesquely enough.“ I think there’s a reason why we don’t do that sort of thing anymore. If you wanted to heighten investigation, that could make sense, but public executions don’t really help anyone.

It apparently cost $500,000 to prosecute three guys, and the number of crimes committed is far worse.

However, “diversity” ideology covered up that the crimes were even happening in the first place. Admitting that some cultures practice this bullsht more than others was “racist”. I mean it’s just economics, right? Cultural differences beyond food aren’t real, right?

What is your plan to force assimilation on this issue?

Maybe we don’t have to publicly execute them. Maybe we can just ordinarily execute them and make sure it gets in the news where their buddies we read it.

Maybe I don’t even want to go that far. Maybe I just want to throw the Overton Window far enough to the right that Cultural Antirealism will die and Left/Libs will at least start admitting that there is a problem and we can get a gentler solution that actually works.

uncharitable politics

diarrheaworldstarhiphop

Source: nationaleconomicseditorial.com trump cw politics predictions

akaltynarchitectonica

argumate

Very very few people are actually anti-immigration. It’s the ILLEGAL part that people don’t like.

seriously tho? a shit-ton of people are actually anti-immigration, this is hardly a fringe view, jesus.

akaltynarchitectonica

I’ve never inderstood why the legality or not of immigration is supposed to have moral force. a) Its pretty commonly agreed that hte current immigration laws arent fit for purpose, and are only that way due to political deadlock. b) The moral obligation to obey a law comes from being part of the country/community that sets the law, if you are not an american citizen you have no obligation to obey US law.

mitigatedchaos

A) Just ignoring them is almost equivalent to Open Borders, which if you’re a Nationalist, is something you don’t want. (Maximum rates of assimilation, wanting to be allowed to have a country of your own to at least some level culturally, effects on wages, effects on crime, etc.) Ignoring them isn’t really a compromise, either, it’s basically just giving the Leftists what they want.

What they really want is more complicated, but using legality as a fence is much simpler and faster to communicate, and is part of expressing that they are not-racist.

B) You should really be careful with that knife since it has a two-sided blade. If they don’t have any obligations, then they don’t have any rights, either. Furthermore, isn’t that like saying a trespasser has no obligation to obey the property owner when they aren’t even supposed to be trespassing in the first place?

Source: argumate politics

defectivealtruist

mitigatedchaos

Broke: Lowering immigration is racist because immigrants are predominantly non-white, and therefore any opposition to immigration necessarily stems from white supremacist racism.

Woke: Not lowering immigration is racist, because bringing in better unskilled or low-skilled employees disproportionately hurts those in our society who are the worst off in terms of health, education, family structure, and contact with the criminal justice system, and that is very much skewed, racially, in our country. Support for mass immigration is just white people showing off how tolerant they are while pushing off the costs on other groups.

defectivealtruist

immigrants don’t count as people worth helping, apparently

mitigatedchaos

If you’re going to make the tradeoff, admit you’re making the tradeoff. Don’t lie and call everyone else racist.

Rationalist Tumblr does reasonably well at that. The Democratic Party and its pundits and associated left wing political operatives do not.

Likewise, don’t heavily restrict the construction of new housing units while calling for mass immigration and becoming viscerally upset at any attempt to slow immigration and insulting the people that want to slow immigration, then complain about high housing prices.

Which is, once again, something Rationalist Tumblr does much better than the Democratic Party.

And quite frankly, I see no reason to believe the latter will improve.

Maybe you do, but I suspect that instead, SJ will eat you alive.

Source: mitigatedchaos politics

poipoipoi-2016

mitigatedchaos

Broke: Lowering immigration is racist because immigrants are predominantly non-white, and therefore any opposition to immigration necessarily stems from white supremacist racism.

defectivealtruist

immigrants don’t count as people worth helping, apparently

mitigatedchaos

If you’re going to make the tradeoff, admit you’re making the tradeoff. Don’t lie and call everyone else racist.

Rationalist Tumblr does reasonably well at that. The Democratic Party and its pundits and associated left wing political operatives do not.

Which is, once again, something Rationalist Tumblr does much better than the Democratic Party.

And quite frankly, I see no reason to believe the latter will improve.

Maybe you do, but I suspect that instead, SJ will eat you alive.

poipoipoi-2016

My position on immigration is basically a function of the national rent/income ratio.

Because either we’re a growing nation that invites in immigrants, or we’re not, but the one thing we’d better damn well not be is a nation that invites in another couple hundred million people this century and then forces everybody to live with roommates with hellish commutes down choked, collapsing, under-provisioned infrastructure (like the Bay Area presently does).

mitigatedchaos

This is what I mean, in small part.

The change, the increase in housing stock for an increase in population, is part of the Happy Liberal Land that Rattumb readers must deliver.

I believe in Nationalism, but how willing am I to fight for it? How willing am I to invent new forms of it that may spread in the 21st century? The nation-state is not dead yet. It isn’t even doomed. The idea that it is, is a Liberal fantasy.

I am willing to fight for it to the degree that you fail.

(*not you, poipoipoi)

Source: mitigatedchaos politics

Broke: Lowering immigration is racist because immigrants are predominantly non-white, and therefore any opposition to immigration necessarily stems from white supremacist racism.

shtpost politics uncharitable

mutant-aesthetic

twitter.com

Julian Assange 🔹 on Twitter

“10/ Here's Singapore's long term prime minister Lee Kuan Yew:”

a-sleepygoldenstorm

What neither side of US politics wants to admit: the promotion of identity politics combined with the declining white super majority has led to turbo charged white identity politics. Since Dems catered for non-white identity politics, Trump and the GOP took hold of white identity politics.

Most countries that do not have a 70%+ super majority ethnic group have ethnicized electoral politics.

mitigatedchaos

Yes, my fear is that Lee Kuan Yew is right.

Source: a-sleepygoldenstorm politics torches in the night racepol

thathopeyetlives

I wonder if there’s possibly any way of imposing symmetry on the whole open borders thing, in a way that would matter.

mitigatedchaos

If you decide to split the difference and make some areas open borders and other areas closed borders to that closed-borders people can live by themselves while open borders people benefit or suffer from the consequences of their decisions, then open borders people will come back six months later and demand the closed borders areas be opened immediately as a moral demand.

If you decide to make open borders contingent on paying off closed borderers with money, the open borders crowd will decry this as immoral and unfair to the global poor.

If you make anyone who comes in via open borders the financial responsibility of open border-supporters, they will decry this as immoral and unfair, because they are individuals and the people they are bringing in are individuals, and culture has nothing to do with their behavior and this is all the fault of those dity closed borderers.

However, it isn’t actually possible to solve global poverty with open borders. To meet the carrying capacity, the nations themselves must be made significantly more productive, and that means greater infrastructure and fewer children in order to concentrate parental investment.

immigration politics

ranma-official

theonion:
“SAN FRANCISCO—In an effort to reduce the number of unprovoked hostile communications on the social media platform, Twitter announced Monday that it had added a red X-mark feature verifying users who are in fact perfectly okay to harass....

Source: theonion queue

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

More you might like

2020

In fact, according to Ted Wilson of Residential Strategies Inc. construction costs have risen by 30% this year—the majority of which is due to higher wages and increased overtime pay. That is, companies are being forced to hire American workers, and pay wages at fair market value.

Julian Assange 🔹 on Twitter