Anonymous
asked:
You've made repeated reference to the effects of cousin marriage wrt Muslim immigrants. Could you elaborate on that?
mitigatedchaos
answered:

There are a few things to understand, here.

Islam does not require cousin marriage, but it doesn’t prohibit it, either, and as far as I’m aware, the practice predates the religion.

Thresholds matter for social behavior.  Something that is okay in small amounts may not be okay in larger amounts.

Here is a map of 2nd-degree-or-closer cousin marriages from Wikipedia.

Notice what a deep blue Pakistan is.  Also notice that in most Western countries, the level is fairly low.  

Now let’s hop over to the Biological Aspects section of the Wikipedia page.

In April 2002, the Journal of Genetic Counseling released a report which estimated the average risk of birth defects in a child born of first cousins at 1.1–2.0 percentage points over an average base risk for non-cousin couples of 3%, or about the same as that of any woman over age 40.

Well now, that doesn’t sound so dangerous - wait, what’s this following paragraph?

Repeated consanguineous marriages within a group are more problematic. After repeated generations of cousin marriage the actual genetic relationship between two people is closer than the most immediate relationship would suggest. In Pakistan, where there has been cousin marriage for generations and the current rate may exceed 50%, one study estimated infant mortality at 12.7 percent for married double first cousins, 7.9 percent for first cousins, 9.2 percent for first cousins once removed/double second cousins, 6.9 percent for second cousins, and 5.1 percent among nonconsanguineous progeny. Among double first cousin progeny, 41.2 percent of prereproductive deaths were associated with the expression of detrimental recessive genes, with equivalent values of 26.0, 14.9, and 8.1 percent for first cousins, first cousins once removed/double second cousins, and second cousins respectively.

Oh dear.

A BBC report discussed Pakistanis in Britain, 55% of whom marry a first cousin.

Oh no.  No no no.

Given the high rate of such marriages, many children come from repeat generations of first-cousin marriages. The report states that these children are 13 times more likely than the general population to produce children with genetic disorders, and one in ten children of first-cousin marriages in Birmingham either dies in infancy or develops a serious disability. The BBC also states that Pakistani-Britons, who account for some 3% of all births in the UK, produce “just under a third” of all British children with genetic illnesses. Published studies show that mean perinatal mortality in the Pakistani community of 15.7 per thousand significantly exceeds that in the indigenous population and all other ethnic groups in Britain. Congenital anomalies account for 41 percent of all British Pakistani infant deaths.

Well, fuck.  This isn’t good.

The increased mortality and birth defects observed among British Pakistanis may, however, have another source besides current consanguinity.

Oh, you mean it might be some kind of outside oppression?  I bet Whi-

Population subdivision results from decreased gene flow among different groups in a population. Because members of Pakistani biradari have married only inside these groups for generations, offspring have higher average homozygosity even for couples with no known genetic relationship.

Oh.  Nope, having kids with people who are too genetically similar to each other.

Now remember, we’re talking about information from Wikipedia and the BBC, not Evil Hatefacts from an Evil Hatesite.


So that’s the genetic aspect.  So why do they do it?  

To keep wealth within the family and stick close to the father’s genetic line.

It isn’t some huge, secret magical diverse cultural benefit that the Middle East has and we don’t.  It’s just clannishness.  (In fact, I suspect the clannishness is even responsible for some of the issues in their armies.)


Now, the Alt Right seems to think that as a result of this and other issues, all Muslim immigrants must be kicked out of the UK.  

That is not necessary.  Also it would probably get a lot of people hurt or killed, which is bad.  So let’s not do that.


For the Liberals, we should keep in mind that cousin marriage likely promotes clannishness and amoral familism (”my family, right or wrong”), due to increased genetic similarity and insulation from the outer world.  In fact, that’s pretty much the purpose of the practice.

Remember that social atomization that was supposed to melt away the religions and make everyone into happy Liberals?  That isn’t going to happen if they all marry their cousins, which enables and incentivizes close, repressive, tight control of women, and insular culture.

If we want Islam to chill out and liberalize and soften, like Christianity, and we want the Muslim immigrants to become happy Liberals, then we must ban cousin marriage.

No excuses because “it’s their culture,” or “you’re just a repressive [ethnic majority].”  That isn’t helping them.  

That’s enabling them.  Cousin marriage is bad.  It’s self-destructive behavior.  It’s other-destructive behavior for the kids, too.

Human beings are resilient.  It won’t take that long to start removing the most negative effects, if we start now.

voxette-vk

That isn’t helping them.

That’s enabling them.

JFC, go fuck yourself.

mitigatedchaos

The BBC story contained an interview with Myra Ali, whose parents and grandparents were all first cousins. She has a very rare recessive genetic condition, … which will cause her to lead a life of extreme physical suffering, limited human contact and probably an early death from skin cancer. Knowing that cousin marriages increase the probability of recessive genetic conditions, she is understandably against the practice.

Unlike you, I’m not on so many layers of Moral Capitalism that I believe an alcoholic’s alcoholism is their true, deep, revealed preference.

You aren’t even physically capable of paying the price for this negligence, and neither are the parents, because even if you worked them to the bone in the highest-earning possible job, it wouldn’t generate enough resources to cure the girl’s rare genetic condition.  

There is always a chance of a problem, but not marrying one’s cousin is a very easy way to avoid an entire class of lifetime-of-suffering problems, for very little cost.  An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Of course, you’re also so Capitalist you’ll say that I don’t have to bear the costs of the treatments, but of course there are also other externalities I can’t so easily avoid bearing the cost of, so that isn’t a real option.