Oceans Yet to Burn — earlgraytay: dubvictor: marsixm: ...

wirehead-wannabe

aawb

hey some advice for young girls is don’t trust men. they know. they know what they do.

comrade-lecter

Don’t trust whom? Stephen Hawking, Prince Harry, your younger brother? Your friend who knew you since childhood? Elton John? Your grandpa?
There is no such thing as men in general when it comes to social interaction.

aawb

lmao this is my favorite response

teapotsubtext

don’t trust prince harry

marsixm

stephen hawking and prince harry teamed up to kill my grandpa so jot that down

dubvictor

guys op is a terf :/

earlgraytay

(OK so @dubvictor let me know if you want me to delete this/are getting shit over the post and just want it gone. Also I’m sorry in advance, this turned into a bit of a novel.)

this. this is the reason that I say ‘casual man hate is bad, actually’; this is the reason I say “we really should not be making fun of people for things they can’t help, even if the things they can’t help are things that make them privileged”. it’s not because I’m a squishy moderate who thinks it would be nice if everyone was nice. it’s because this stuff directly hurts vulnerable people.

you ever notice how these ‘funny’, ‘relatable’ man-hate posts keep going around, right, and they get a thousand notes or so, and then someone notices, ‘hey, OP is a terf’. And everyone stops and goes oh because they realise, ‘hey, OP doesn’t actually mean men.’

…if you have a category of people that are Acceptable Targets- a group of people you can performatively hate, no matter what, to the point where you can advocate for their genocide and people will understand it’s ‘just’ a joke- asshats will go to whatever lengths they can to equate the people they hate with Acceptable Targets.

TERFs try to make trans women look like men, because for a lot of feminists, men are an Acceptable Target. ableist feminists try to write off their discomfort with ‘creepy’ autistic behaviour* by saying it’s ‘male-coded’ or ‘masculine’, because men are an Acceptable Target. racist feminists talk about thugs and racially-charged Stranger Danger stereotypes, and then they expect you not to call them on their shit because- you guessed it- men are an Acceptable Target.

and yes, trans women are women, trans women are not men, equating the two is wrong. but, like… just because they’re ‘not men’ in the abstract doesn’t mean they can’t get hurt by stuff that is directly aimed at them. on top of that, there are people who are men- who are also lgbt+, or disabled, or poc- who get hit with the splash damage. if you’re already told all day every day by the media and the people around you that you’re a terrible person who’s not to be trusted, how do you think it feels coming from a place that’s supposed to be ‘safe’?

when you say ‘it’s okay to make fun of this group of people for a thing they didn’t choose to be, because the thing they didn’t choose makes them privileged’, what you’re effectively saying is 'it’s okay if there’s Acceptable Targets, as long as they’re not people like me.’ whether or not you intend to, you’re giving carte blanche to the people who want an Acceptable Target so they can keep being bigoted in a socially acceptable fashion.

*I’m talking about, like, infodumping, not stalking. a lot of sexist creepy men will try to do the exact same thing in reverse and go “b-but i have a disability :( why are you being ableist :(”. and i’m not defending them, either.

Source: aawb gender politics

More you might like

bambamramfan

slatestarcodex.com

Polyamory Is Not Polygyny

[Content warning: polyamory, brief quote of weird Heartiste stuff] The objections I hear to polyamory tend to separate into two narratives sharing a common thread. The first narrative is supposedly…

bambamramfan

SSC’s latest seems like a classic case of letting gender politics obfuscate power and class issues that cut across gender.

He quotes some PUA:

Polyamory — multiple and simultaneous sexual relationships — means, in practice, a few high value dudes hording all the pussy.

And then he uses both his intuitive experience and his LW survey data to show that men and women in polyamory date about the same number of people. There’s at least no clear cut numerical advantage to men. My experience also agrees.

But what if we neuter that sentence, and look at it again:

Polyamory — multiple and simultaneous sexual relationships — means, in practice, a few high value people dudes hording all the dates.

Which is to say, charismatic and confident people of either gender, dating a lot of people, and awkward and introverted people of both genders dating no one, only one person, or being a hanger on in a larger polycule that doesn’t get a lot of attention from the partner regardless.

That sounds… less implausible. It doesn’t exactly match my observed experience, but it’s not super far from it either. I’ve certainly seen in nerdy groups a Queen Bee that is dating half the men, in a way that seems parallel to the alpha-males that PUA’s fear/worship.

It’s not at all clear that this is bad. This seems just as likely to be the result of “some people want more partners, and are more socially outgoing to find them, while some people want less or are less willing to put themselves out there to meet them,” which would be fine. Or it could be this high-value thing. (I detest rat-tumb’s focus on high-status-males as the evil beneficiary of social engineering, which seems both empirically and ontologically unsound, but from a capitalist-critical perspective, “liberalizing trade regimes” often means “the rich people get more stuff and poor people somehow have less.”)

But, I’m also not going to be surprised by the subjective perspective of people low on the social totem pole. Before, they had hope in this pigeon-hole thing, where each person could get at most one partner, so eventually the people as attractive as them would realize their best chance for a life long relationship was with fellow low-class dates like themselves. It was a bad model, but I’m aware people believed in it. Now they worry no one will be left waiting for them, and they’ll be entirely alone forever. So there’s some people who seem to be having a lot of sex (stealing their jouissance) and they aren’t reaping the benefits.

The answers they come up with are usually dumb, but they are at least seeing/feeling a thing.

mitigatedchaos

Bambam honey darling kun, and also @slatestarscratchpad friend,

I love weird nerds but weird nerds aren’t a representative sample for the behavior of typical relationship norms.

A better example for normies applying this would be all the other countries, territories and communities where polygamy is practiced, as well as communities within the US where one man will have 11 kids by 8 different women.

No full poly until Tranhumanism makes it possible to ‘defect’ from both your sex and sexual orientation, pls.

gender politics

Anonymous asked:

Can you read all your posts under “gender politics” tag and truthfully say that you want to live when the life is like that? I couldn't.

Dearest Anon-kun,

My representation is a bit more dire than how I actually interpret the situation, in part because it’s intended as a counter-balance to mainstream feminism, which strips women of their agency and refuses to critically examine their role in the social dynamics which create these situations.

“Women are powerless” is really quite deeply normalized almost everywhere! It’s very insidious.

Comments regarding even cishet neurotypical women should be regarded as generalizations that do not uniformly apply to the population, and many subgroups don’t necessarily fit them. Additionally, low-status women also exist. In fact, women that don’t fit this mold are more common in my subcultures!

Additionally,

1) I have a reasonable shot at making it to the Transhuman era.

2) I have a close relationship to my ex WRT expressed vulnerability & female companionship, though not sexually.

3) Have you observed the number of self-identified “traps” and other such individuals among the Alt Right? I believe this represents a sign of an impending Male Gender Meltdown, the consequences of which are hard to predict. Overall, I do think progress is being made, as indicated by the appearance of multiple male gender movements.

Also,

All my exes are bisexual (and therefore have no set reason to behave in a certain pattern of attraction), and this blog will continue to not disclose my sex/gender.

Kind Regards,
Miti

P.S. If you are secretly the tumblr user known as BA, this blog hopes for your swift recovery regardless of whether that is low in probability. If you are secretly tumblr user RO, this blog hopes for an increase in your available useful energy.

gender politics

blackblocberniebros

argumate

dudebro is just a terrible word for any kind of progressive purpose given that it entirely concedes masculinity to the opposition.

blackblocberniebros

I think we’re more than prepared to concede masculinity to the opposition. What redeeming qualities does it have? Everything I’ve seen masculinity be is aggression, envy, or pride, all of which are, uh, mortal sins.

mitigatedchaos

…are you joking?

Or have you just already defined masculinity as everything you hate?

If it turns out that a significant number of straight women actually like masculine men and haven’t been brainwashed into it, what is your plan?

How can a male build a healthy self-identity if to be male is nothing more than to be a flawed woman?

blackblocberniebros

I don’t think people should build self-identities as men or women. I think they’re stifling. The notion that because I was born with a penis I should want to cultivate A traits and not B traits is silly to me. Let boys play with dolls if they want and let girls play with trucks if they want. Let men be tender, let women be slobs. None of this should mean they’re not doing a good job at being a complete person.

These conversations always get so abstract so tell me what you think masculinity and femininity are and I’ll explain what I dislike.

mitigatedchaos

Masculinity and Femininity are a partially socially-constructed, partially biological phenomenon.

Essentially, gendered trait distribution resembles two overlapping bell curves, controlled by hormonal levels at key points in development, along with genes, epigenetics, and environmental factors.

Pre-natal testosterone levels - in females, not just males - track with later toy preferences for mechanical/systems toys vs social ones. While the effects of sex hormones are not simple, they are very much not a placebo.

Society then layers its gender roles on top of this, driven in part by previous economies and incentives that may no longer exist. Often it exaggerates, or essentializes, and so for this reason people go “well dresses are obviously not biological and not all people like the assigned roles, therefore male and female are exactly the same and all apparent differences are caused by societal brainwashing.”

So we might think of masculine/feminine as the axis of opposition for gendered traits. (Intelligence does not appear to be one of these traits, as the center point seems to be the same.) Alternatively, we might think of it as the center points of the respective bell curves.

It’s important to remember, however, that the masculine woman and the feminine man are both legitimate, as well as various other mixes on more than one trait. Humans are complicated and biology is quite noisy and also complicated. But the clustering is still real.

The issue with your plan is that cishets seem to actually want someone who differs on the gender axes from them in that masc/femme way in terms of their attraction (which they don’t consciously control), and the idea that we’ll abolish gender and not have them identify as the labeled gender clumps associated with their respective sexes (cishets in specific) in the name of some modern idea of liberation… well I’m confident that won’t work out very well.

Source: argumate gender politics

argumate

Mulan is Problematic

argumate

Let’s get down to business
- capitalism stifles human flourishing

to defeat
- war is the problem not the solution

the Huns
- an oppressed group of impoverished herders

Did they send me daughters
- misogyny

when I asked for sons
- male privilege

You’re the saddest bunch I ever met
- trivialising depression

But you can bet before we’re through
- encouraging gambling

Mister I’ll make a man out of you
- sexism, misogyny, transmisogyny, I literally can’t even

mitigatedchaos

MRAs should like Mulan over the other Disney movies, since it depicts masculinity in a more complete and nuanced way. Therefore, Mulan is Problematic.

gender politics shtpost

argumate

decameter

@digging-holes-in-the-river reminded me of a form of sexism, or at least huge wrongness, that I sometimes suffer from, although I think I’m improving.

Logical belief: as reported by reliable statisticians, women are 52% of the population

Alief: women are a small minority, like 5% or something. They don’t really take part in society.

I think I get this from working in a very male dominated profession, and, to the extent I ever socialise, socialising with people from that profession.

I don’t often seem women complaining about this kind of view, presumably on the view it’s too ludicrous to occur to them, although I think complaints like “why are you treating all women as a uniform special case” are a sort of second-order effect.

argumate

I mean you’d feel like that in some industries, business, politics.

On the other hand: primary school teachers, nurses, dental hygienists (apparently 98% female, in Australia at least).

It’s interesting when you see a particular field pass 50% female intake because you know there’s going to be a shake up coming when all the old guys hit retirement age and society recodes whatever it is as a ‘girl thing’.

Victoria Police has got their female representation up from 8% to 26% and I’m really curious to see how people react if it ever gets to 50% or above, that’ll be totes fun.

mitigatedchaos

Some Normie: as reported by reliable statisticians, women are 52% of the population

A Nerd: women are a small minority, like 5% or something. they don’t really take part in society.

Enlightened Discourse Master: there are no women, only men and traps

Source: decameter gender politics shtpost

slartibartfastibast

the-grey-tribe

If there is a gay gene, gay marriage and adoption will pull it out of circulation soon.

mailadreapta

This is the usual and obvious response to people who say that gayitude can’t be genetic because otherwise it would have been selected out already. Bruh, before we had gay liberation being gay was not a major knock on fertility since you would probably be having kids anyway. Fortunately, now we do have gay liberation so we can weed the queers out of the gene pool as Darwin intended.

mailadreapta

Cochran goes off against the “gay uncle” theory and other cockamamie schemes which claim that gayness is not selected out of the population because of some offsetting benefit, by making the entirely true point that the benefits to your family have to huge in order to compensate for taking you out of the gene pool entirely. However, this objection loses a lot of its force if the fertility loss from homosexuality is small. If homosexuals reproduce at rates similar to heterosexuals, then having the gay gene becomes all-upside from a Darwinian perspective.

Seen in this light, homophobia is a eugenic cultural institution which keeps gay genes in the gene pool by forcing even obligate homosexuals to marry and have children.

slartibartfastibast

Personal anecdote indicates that Cochran is probably on so something:

http://slartibartfastibast.com/post/159672281259/i-imagine-one-of-those-big-complex-things-being

It’s semi-heritable but non-genetic:

http://slartibartfastibast.com/post/114665865499/being-suspicious-of-gmos-is-only-irrational-if-you

I think it’s an alternative developmental trajectory that can reduce intermale competition for mates or something. Seems like it could be more influenced by early environmental triggers than anybody wants to admit. In-utero tuning to the parental environment is probably part of it. Cochran goes so far as to say that it has to be partly communicable, which would upset a lot of people.

I mean, Alzheimer’s is apparently bacterial/microbiomic in origin, but nobody treats it like it’s communicable because it really doesn’t look like it is. The vector would have to be extremely convoluted and indirect.

Also, humans are probs eusocial:

http://slartibartfastibast.com/post/160728219904/contra-scott-alexander-on-prestige

mitigatedchaos

I don’t think we’ll lose the gays for another reason - by the end of the century, we will have figured out how to make new people gay or bisexual on purpose. That has to be factored in to the calculations.

Source: the-grey-tribe gender politics

anosognosic

Source: mic.com gender politics

obiternihili

argumate

dudebro is just a terrible word for any kind of progressive purpose given that it entirely concedes masculinity to the opposition.

blackblocberniebros

mitigatedchaos

…are you joking?

Or have you just already defined masculinity as everything you hate?

If it turns out that a significant number of straight women actually like masculine men and haven’t been brainwashed into it, what is your plan?

How can a male build a healthy self-identity if to be male is nothing more than to be a flawed woman?

obiternihili

In that last line, being male and being a Man™ are different things. You can be male or female and you can be you by having your own goddamn identity and thinking for yourself instead of bullying the sick weak nerdy kid into it for not conforming to some arbitrary set of interests

like I might disagree with bbb on this because being a real man to me is just being an adult. But being a Man™ or even the subset of Men™, the dudebro - is giving up defining my own identity and giving up making maturity, not interests or the way I express myself, the performative element.

dudebro was pretty much always meant to refer the kinds of people we think of as stereotypical frat boys anyways. Dumbasses who don’t give a shit about consent or abuse or anything like that except fucking people ±over. That’s not being a man. That’s being garbage.

And if a lot of women are attracted to abuse, why? And are we sure? Are we sure underlying factors aren’t distorting the really important values?

And like if definitions differ definitions differ. Get over it. The line beginning with “Or” is not actually a point however smugly it’s phrased.

mitigatedchaos

Have you considered that maybe it’s your conception of masculinity which is very narrow and culturally limited, here?

There is more than one way to be masculine and exploring and normalizing new masculinities could be very helpful (and still attractive to cishet women and thus not self-erasing on the long-term). Conceding masculinity to the opposition is a terrible idea.

Source: argumate gender politics

obiternihili

mitigatedchaos

@obiternihili And I lean towards that, and am asking for examples indirectly

The new masculinities are out there being formed right now in the vast chasms of the net, but many are too liquid now and not yet crystalized.

Some are pulling from the future, where gender is more dissolved than it is now, and mixing outwards transgressions with confidence.

Others pull elements from the past without taking the whole thing. Some degree of sexual promiscuity has always been present in human society, but not always with the same rules, social punishments, and social status.

I don’t think new stable equilibria will be fully identifiable for a while.

Source: argumate gender politics

argumate

actually I can’t abide the thought of shaving armpits, it’s a sensitive concave surface! why would you do that!

mitigatedchaos

Looking younger is attractive for women because straight men value it (most likely for biological reasons related to fertility), and women in general have features that make them look younger and softer than men. (You’ll notice women tend to have less body hair in general.) Now, while the timing of puberty and so on means that this doesn’t entirely make sense for armpit hair, it isn’t one of those preferences that has to be unified so long as other traits of sexual maturity are present.

For straight women seeking men, youth is still a benefit if it doesn’t get in the way of other matters, and there is some debate about the influence of widespread use of hormonal birth control on sexual preferences, in addition to the usual debate about social formation of preferences.

LGBT individuals, of course, have no reason to be in any particular preference grouping on this matter.

gender politics

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

More you might like

Polyamory Is Not Polygyny

Mulan is Problematic

Male and female brains aren’t wired differently