Oceans Yet to Burn

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitigatedchaos]

I’m not sure it matters.  Feminism-the-political-movement and its institutional power is sexist to the point of classifying “forced envelopment” as something other than rape, denies biology (and I don’t mean “lol trans isn’t real” I mean “hormones aren’t a placebo”), is pretty messed up and out-of-sync with people on sex (explicit-verbal-consent-at-every-point for example is not how people, particularly most women, actually want it), effectively denies there are consequences to sexual liberalism, and so on.

They don’t appear to actually believe in female agency, either.

And they publish articles like “MRAs hated Mad Max Fury Road!”, even though if you travel into the MRA viper nest to check, the local MRAs are all “??? what” at this accusation.

The question, I think, is why they hate it so much to lie about it like that.  And I think the reason is because the MRA narrative, at least, is not Traditionalism or Feminism, even though it required both of those to come into existence.  It’s the first challenge to their stranglehold on the gender narrative in some time, and controlling the gender narrative is very valuable politically.

The MRA narrative isn’t spot-on either, but because it contains things Feminism deliberately ignored, it has room to grow, just like Feminism had room to grow due to what Traditionalism ignored.

I also believe it’s a symptom of a looming Male Gender Meltdown that Feminism thinks it wants but is too self-absorbed to carry out.  Like, the Alt Right should not be so full of self-identified “traps”, Bronies were scorched but aren’t compatible with the Feminist/Traditionalist model either, and so on.  These are symptoms, I think, of a situation which has not yet exploded, but the point of criticality is slowly being reached and it’s going to look very strange and I don’t think the cishet neurotypical women are going to like it.

And?  That critical point may arrive just as affordable tissue engineering does.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[ranma-official]

criminal minds episode about PUAs in the background lel

[ranma-official]

they are discussing incels this is great

[ranma-official]

Yeah this is kind of a boring episode because it’s basically a cartoonish version of Elliot Rodger and “doesn’t the manosphere suck guys am i rite”

The manosphere absolutely does suck, but Rodger​ is more interesting than this guy and his problems aren’t on the level of “the internet told me to hate women so I do”

[mitigatedchaos]

They’ve done this before. I wrote a GUI in Visual Basic to prove it. More seriously a more naunced take would be less Feminist-mainstream. The Manosphere, for all its flaws, is hated because it’s a rival for the dominant gender narrative that is gaining ground. Shakily, it’s true, but almost inevitably since Feminism is missing entire chunks of reality.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Anonymous asked:

Can you read all your posts under “gender politics” tag and truthfully say that you want to live when the life is like that? I couldn't.

Dearest Anon-kun,

My representation is a bit more dire than how I actually interpret the situation, in part because it’s intended as a counter-balance to mainstream feminism, which strips women of their agency and refuses to critically examine their role in the social dynamics which create these situations.

“Women are powerless” is really quite deeply normalized almost everywhere!  It’s very insidious.

Comments regarding even cishet neurotypical women should be regarded as generalizations that do not uniformly apply to the population, and many subgroups don’t necessarily fit them.  Additionally, low-status women also exist.  In fact, women that don’t fit this mold are more common in my subcultures!

Additionally, 

1) I have a reasonable shot at making it to the Transhuman era.

2) I have a close relationship to my ex WRT expressed vulnerability & female companionship, though not sexually.

3) Have you observed the number of self-identified “traps” and other such individuals among the Alt Right?  I believe this represents a sign of an impending Male Gender Meltdown, the consequences of which are hard to predict.  Overall, I do think progress is being made, as indicated by the appearance of multiple male gender movements.

Also,

All my exes are bisexual (and therefore have no set reason to behave in a certain pattern of attraction), and this blog will continue to not disclose my sex/gender.

Kind Regards,
Miti

P.S. If you are secretly the tumblr user known as BA, this blog hopes for your swift recovery regardless of whether that is low in probability.  If you are secretly tumblr user RO, this blog hopes for an increase in your available useful energy.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[wirehead-wannabe]

Weird how “I prefer to date intelligent women” and “I prefer to date women with a high IQ” have totally different levels of social desirability.

[mitigatedchaos]

The former conceals the fact that the latter may not apply to the woman reading it. That’s why one is Feminism but the other is Low-Status Male.

[house-carpenter]

No, that’s not how I see it at all. IQ isn’t the same thing as intelligence! It’s just a measure of it, not the thing itself; and presumably it’s intelligence that you actually value, not the measure of it. Like, even if you believe that IQ tests are flawless instruments that always measure intelligence accurately, and measure exactly the same intelligence-concept that you’re valuing—you can entertain the possibility that you’re mistaken about this, and that actually it would be possible for two people to get scores on IQ tests in the reverse order from their actual intelligences. In such a counterfactual scenario, it’d surely be the actually more intelligent person you’d prefer, not the one who got the higher score. So, unless your preferences are really weird, “I prefer to date intelligent women” is the accurate statement, and “I prefer to date women with a high IQ” is just wrong. Of course this’d just be a nitpick if everybody agreed that IQ tests were basically unproblematic measures of intelligence, but… they don’t, so the casual conflation of IQ and intelligence is naturally going to annoy people who don’t agree that the two things are more or less the same.

And even somebody who’s happy to regard IQ as just a synonym of “intelligence” might observe that it’s a rather technical way of saying “intelligence”; why not just use the everyday English word? Using needlessly technical vocabulary generally comes across as obnoxious.

[mitigatedchaos]

I admit I was being a bit snarky due to the Feminist movement’s bad habit of ending up as part of a gender-based status war.

Most people think that they are some level of intelligent, especially the sort of cishet women who identify as feminist IME.  However, most people don’t have high IQs.

The male neckbeard, by specifying a way that intelligence can be studied with some reliability, not only exposes this disconnect, but also has the nerve to place himself higher on the status hierarchy by demanding it - higher than he deserves, for this focus on such things is often done by unhygenic or awkward people!  He’s supposed to recognize his low status and show sufficient deference.

And what’s more, many people who don’t think they measure up on other qualities use intelligence as their last bastion of defense of the ego.  Most of them probably don’t need to, but society can be pretty harsh.

So you have all that, plus Feminism doesn’t like men deciding their own standards.  Plus the other stuff.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[wirehead-wannabe]

Weird how “I prefer to date intelligent women” and “I prefer to date women with a high IQ” have totally different levels of social desirability.

[mitigatedchaos]

The former conceals the fact that the latter may not apply to the woman reading it. That’s why one is Feminism but the other is Low-Status Male.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitigatedchaos]

Rightists see threats where there are none.

Leftists don’t see threats where there are.

[misanthropymademe]

Rightist: accusing me of paranoia is undermining the security of our nation!
Leftist: I don’t see the problem with leftists remaining calm in the face of possible danger, better than giving in to fear. 

[argumate]

Centrists fail to see important threats while fixating on nonexistent threats, yay.

[mitigatedchaos]

C'est moi?

I’m identifying as somewhat of a social centrist these days, whatever that means. I watched as rightists wastefully burnt through dragon hoards’ worth of social capital fighting The Gays, and for years I thought that meant Leftists/Liberals were more broadly correct and Conservatives were just prudes.

Then I started to see that atomic individualism isn’t what humans are ‘made’ for, and looked on in horror as I realized the only group that might stand in the way of legalizing polygamy (with all its problems) no longer has the social capital to effectively do so. Also that random casual sex isn’t what most people find healthy/fulfilling, and so on and so forth.

Which lead me to post the OP.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Idea: more fantasy heroines who don’t look down on female-coded work

[lectorel]

Sword-swinging mercenaries who admire the hell out of their sister-in-law’s delicate, painstaking embroidery. Mages who find their experience with running a household helps them organize and control their magic. Desperate rebels who know they are absolutely dependent on the women who cook and mend and care for the wounded.

I am so bored of heroines who sneer at ‘womanly’ things and complain of the uselessness of embroidery. Your average medieval kingdom wouldn’t last a week without people doing women’s work.

[mitigatedchaos]

I wonder, is this artifact where it’s devalued in part due to atomic individualism? Female-coded work is necessary for the maintenance of families and societies, especially in the agregate, but it lacks the star power of the highest-status masculine-coded work.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[vonisv]

[sharkbutt-groove]

[official-mugi]

I keep scrolling and I feel like I’m just falling deeper into the inferno

[mitigatedchaos]

Everyone who doesn’t agree with me is a low-status male from the political outgroup, especially the women.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[sigmaleph]

so what’s the general point of the latest bout of cuckscourse, anyway? ojst talks about cuck fetishim in a cringey way it’s easy to make fun of? ojst gets cuck fetishim wrong or oversimplified? ojst is actively harmful by not giving due attention to the racial aspects of cuck fetishim?

[argumate]

all of the above depending on who you talk to, plus the fact that most people find the concept of cucks intrinsically hilarious for reasons that are actually way more problematic than any sex positive comic; y’all should be ashamed of yourselves.

[mitigatedchaos]

Intuitively I let furries, various shippers, BDSM, certain Tumblr users you may know, etc etc slide partly from tolerance and partly from Mutually Assured Kink Destruction.  (LGBT fine too but doesn’t qualify as kink, etc etc.)

Cuckldry though, makes me feel like they have no self-respect at all?  Which maybe isn’t true, but I don’t feel that way about male BDSM submissive types which is the closest analogue I can think of.

So yeah I’m probably a little bit problematic, but you already knew that.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[ozymandias271]

people who are very angry about the phrase “toxic masculinity”: what does the phrase “toxic masculinity” mean to you?

(I would very much appreciate not being super angry/offended in your answer, because the reason I’m confused is that a lot of the times when you guys talk about it I get that you’re really mad but it’s hard to understand why)

[nuclearspaceheater]

Toxic masculinity can be divided into two distinct things:

If you bite a guy and you die, that’s poisonous masculinity.

If a guy bites you and you die, that’s venomous masculinity.

[slatestarscratchpad]

I wouldn’t say I’m very angry, but it annoys me.

I understand it as meaning “being violent, being macho, having an honor culture where you have to avenge slights, being protective/jealous about women, thinking being a sissy is the worst thing in the world, etc”

A small part of my objection is that it can have a bailey of “in various ways that stereotypically-masculine behaviors/norms differ from stereotypically-feminine behaviors/norms, the stereotypically masculine ones are toxic and the stereotypically feminine ones are good.” It seems to me that there are dichotomies like individualism rather than communalism, stoicism rather than emotion, nonconformism rather than conformism, assertiveness rather than submissiveness, dignity rather than not-caring-about-dignity, a feeling of responsibility to protect others versus looking out for yourself - that it would be really easy to map onto toxic masculinity if you wanted. I’m not saying that if I phrase it as “assertiveness rather than submissiveness” anyone would read that phrase and so “oh, that’s bad, it’s toxic masculinity”. I’m saying that in real life there are ambiguous behaviors which, if you’re being assertive when someone else wants you to be submissive, they can round it off to “macho aggressiveness” and accuse you of toxic masculinity, and so have a social superweapon behind them..

But a bigger part is just that the whole phrase seems calculated to maximally offend and marginalize men. Imagine that everyone used the phrase “toxic femininity” to refer to causing drama, being overly emotional, gossiping, being weak, insisting other people take care of you, and other stereotypically feminine-coded bad behaviors - but there was no such phrase as “toxic masculinity” and people would get horribly offended if you tried to invent it. To me this would seem obviously calculated to pathologize women and identify the whole essence of being feminine with extreme versions of negative stereotypes. Well….

[bambamramfan]

I get this, and I can see why the hypocrisy is galling, but actually instead of less context (swapping masculinity for femininity and seeing if we still like the logic), I reach my conclusion by adding more context.

Toxic masculinity really is worse than toxic femininity. Violence is worse than gossip. Like on one hand we have the evil of Abigail from the Crucible, but on the other hand we have… war.

I’m extremely anti-masculine because even as a man I can step back and say “masculinity has caused way, way too many deaths.” Aggression is bad for the self and very bad for the people who get stepped on, and yet it’s a degenerate and dominant strategy in our social and economic model.

Unfortunately, because “acting like a cliche man” is so advantageous, the real risk is an ideology that latches onto to the particulars of “being a man” as the problem and copies the behavior, thinking it can be purified if done by someone else.

So what you get is people harassing men in a confrontational manner, using all the tools of masculine aggression, but thinking it’s not toxic masculinity because it’s done by a woman (or by a group of people including some men, but who say they are doing it on behalf of women.)

And at it’s worse, the phrase “toxic masculinity” seems part of that memeplex, whereby we take the worst behaviors of man-world and legitimize them so long as they are being done by people we are calling not-masculine.

[mitigatedchaos]

It must be acknowledged the role that straight neurotypical women have in reinforcing these behaviors. If they weren’t successful in the dating scene, if cishet nt women did not flock to currently high status men and shun currently low status men, regardless of how that status was obtained, if fewer of them fled at vulnerability and other feminine-coded behaviors, then the behavior of straight neurotypical men would change in response.

Instead straight men often seem to hold the idea that if they are not strong, if they are not masculine, if they are not successful, they will not be loved.

And realistically we know it isn’t going to happen. The real thing that undermines it will be the total gender meltdown under Transhumanism as millions of men and women flee their roles or carve out new ones more suited to themselves.

If the current attraction model and sexual liberalism are to be kept, then people have to acknowledge the consequences instead of heaping it all on one gender.