Oceans Yet to Burn

brutereason

“You liberals and your safe spaces/trigger warnings/elitism/anti-fascist protests are the reason we have the alt-right” isn’t wrong just because it’s cruel and victim-blaming. It’s wrong because…well, follow that to its logical conclusion.

Suppose you’re right. Suppose we live in a world where a group of overeager progressive students demanding trigger warnings can actually cause large groups of Nazis to march with assault rifles and elect a leader who promises to bankrupt, deport, imprison, assault and/or kill millions of people. Suppose we live in a world where one punch thrown by an Antifa protester naturally and rightly leads to mass curtailment of civil rights for everyone.

Suppose we live in a world where those on the side of justice have to be perfect, have to moderate our language and keep our voices down, have to assemble politely and calmly, or else we can and should expect violent repression.

What kind of world is that?

If we live in a world where overeager college kids naturally provoke Nazi aggression, then the Nazis have already come, and the college kids and the Antifas and whoever else you want to blame today are just convenient targets.

mitigatedchaos

“On the side of justice” - Hint, not everyone agrees that your faction is “on the side of justice,” especially when that faction is willing to do things like overlook sex crimes for ideological reasons. (“But right-wingers ignore sex cri-” right, but you’re implicitly claiming that you are better than them. If you aren’t really, why bother with you?)

Look, there can be dustups without it escalating so much. White nationalists were fringe earlier.

But there is support on the Left for demographic replacement, combined with an implicit belief in ethnonationalism for everyone except white people.

Every time some progressive talks about how “we are the guests of the native tribes here in Michigan,” it supports collective ethnic ownership of the land, which is a core component of ethnonationalism.

You cannot have collective ethnic justice and not have white nationalism.

Either you have civic nationalism without white nationalism, or you have individualism without white nationalism, but you cannot have racial consciousness without white people having racial consciousness, too.

And yeah, historically, white nationalism has been bad. So maybe I don’t appreciate people running around specifically making white people aware of their race and how it’s “problematic” all the time making them identify harder with whiteness.

Spencer’s rally wasn’t even that big! They had to truck people in from all across the country! That whole “anti Nazis” rally in Boston or whatever dwarfed the KKK that were said to be planning to arrive by orders of magnitude.

There might be ways to have ethnic consciousness without causing white ethnonationalism, but they are ideologically prohibited to you, and would probably look more like the behaviors of East Asian soft authoritarian low-democracy city-states than anything you’d see in a diversity seminar.

grumpy uncharitable racepol

rendakuenthusiast

obiternihili

I feel like you could make a point in a bias/perspective class by ahead of time getting the unfamiliar names down phonetically so that on your first day taking attendance you could make a show by pronouncing their names correctly but mispronouncing all the names like “John Smith”, “Fred Williams” or “Susan McKenzie”.

Just like in a “Hey class there are subtle little shitty things like this that just exist for some people and if I didn’t go out of my way to do this chances are like half of you would never experience it once even though it’s happening like four times a day to everyone else”

rendakuenthusiast

“The very presence of foreign immigrants is changing your culture for the worse, Trumpian immigration restrictionism is in your interest”

mitigatedchaos

@obiternihili

@rendakuenthusiast Where the fuck are you getting that? White chicks are able to come with names like Zarowski or Tegan or Kanada or whatever.

I’ll tell you where he’s getting it - this kind of exercise implies that the immigrants would would not have to deal with those terrible, horrible incorrect name pronunciations if the immigrants weren’t in the country, and that the students wouldn’t be experiencing this kind of bias exercise designed to tell them that they’re bad people for not knowing more than a miniscule fraction of the hundreds (if not thousands?) of languages on Earth.

People in the nations of origins of the immigrants may well not pronounce their names right, either. It hits them with a unidirectional moral weight, unless handled very carefully.

…and it won’t be handled carefully, because SJ is a culture weapon.

People can sense the political intent on an intuitive level - and it is political.

Source: obiternihili the culture war uncharitable grumpy

Maybe the reason so many Leftists think white nationalists cannot be deconverted is because they cannot deconvert them.

If you believe in collective ethnic ownership of the land, you believe in one of the core components of ethnonationalism. And if you believe that ties into race, you believe in a core component of racial ethnonationalism.

Asking a white nationalist to come down from the tree of white ethnonationalism is not going to work while you, yourself, are up a tree of ethnonationalism. It’s hypocritical, and hypocrisy is not very convincing.

The real alternatives are more in the realm of individualism - placing individuals over ethnic groups (and ethnic group membership) - and civic nationalism - placing the nation and national culture above ethnic groups. But both of those are very unWoke.

politics grumpy racepol

argumate

sadoeconomist

argumate said: the klan are the real victims, huh

Yeah, that’s definitely not what I said. I’m just really wondering how to defend yourself from piss balloons. My area is full of particularly nasty antifas and it may be useful to know what to do about it if I find myself organizing an IRL political event at some point.

If there really is no way to counter it then they could shut down all public political opposition just by drowning it in enough bodily fluids. I really don’t want that to be how the last vestiges of free expression in America are destroyed.

argumate

raincoats, or just act like you enjoy it a little bit too much.

or just schedule your event for the same day as the Nazis but in a different city, let them take the piss balloons on your behalf.

mitigatedchaos

Bring your own fire hoses.

Sure, the cost of a truck with a water tank will put a dent in the rally’s expenses, but sadoeconomist is an ancap so he surely must understand the idea of the people being responsible for their own sanitation.

There is no right to complain about your biohazardous materials getting washed away. If water gets on the antifas in the process of washing the piss bottles into the gutters, well it’s far more sanitary than the liquids they were throwing.

Yes, turning all protests into super soaker festivals isn’t the greatest, but it’s better than the alternative, as long as the water pressure isn’t too high. And it better be, because you’re going to have to hose down your own guys to keep them clean.

No injuries. I’m specifically talking about just washing people.

Of course, if I were in charge of the city, I’d install high-resolution cameras before the rally, get flying camera drones too, ban face-covering masks for the rally, and then fine every last one of those people $2,500 for malicious biohazardous littering (per piss-bottle) and all the mask-wearers, too.

Source: sadoeconomist shtpost uncharitable grumpy

While we’re at it, people need to quit trying to re-awaken white racial consciousness. You think you’re going to kill it, but you aren’t going to tame it this time, either. Let it fucking sleep.

grumpy uncharitable politics

misanthropymademe

collapsedsquid

Pro-tip that is only somewhat meant snarkily: If you’re going to use facts and logic to make a argumentative point, just use the facts and logic. Facts and logic should be able to stand on their own, they don’t need a preface saying you’re going to use facts and logic.

If you say “I’m using facts and logic“ there’s a subtext there that is “unlike you, who are irrational and hysterical.“

There’s a roughly similar point for talk of “bias” that I’ll leave as an exercise for the reader.

mitigatedchaos

“That sounds like something a racist misogynist would say. I bet you talk about forking dongles near womyn, discouraging them from entering the tech industry with your disgusting sexual harassment.”

Total mystery why someone would assume certain factions were hysterical and illogical or not acting in good faith.

And yeah, I know it isn’t all like that, but aside from lopsided media exposure there is a culture war going on, and doxxing/firing/etc have been deemed Justice so a lot of that social capital has been blown, including for leftists more generally.

misanthropymademe

Nobody acts in good faith, we all run on corrupted hardware (but this is no excuse to handwave anytime you fuck up yourself). Fallacy bingo, histrionic accusations that a participant in a debate has no skin in the game and getting huffy about the opponent not being charitable are all manners of trying to goad the opponent into adhering to one’s personal shibboleths and should therefore be ignored.

mitigatedchaos

In my opinion the best way, morally, to deal with all this diversity fighting is to just ignore it and act on your own morality. Nothing you do will ever be good enough to satisfy the culture warriors, and therefore their demands should be treated as irrelevant. Never agree to repay an infinite debt.

I have no interest in supporting a movement that awards social status for destroying people like me. I’ll help individuals, listen to those I trust, and act on my own morals. But without further information suggesting I should actually trust them, I won’t give the typical SJ thinkpiecer the time of day.

Burning enormous amounts of social capital fighting The Gays™ by the righties was also incredibly stupid.

Source: collapsedsquid grumpy

I’m still puzzled by those on the Left who don’t understand the rise in White Nationalism.

What exactly did they expect when they were cheering on “demographic destiny”? When their ideology required them to excuse terror attacks and look away from mass sex crimes? When the rurals were thrown under the bus in favor of corporations and globalization? When governing in the national interests went from an unspoken assumption to ‘chauvinism’? When the woman accompanying Charles Murray went to the hospital after the no-platforming to check on her injuries? When a foreign ideology hostile to LGBTs was excused from all criticism because of the race of who practiced it?

Will it be any mystery if Asians leave the coalition over getting smacked by Affirmative Action? Will it be any mystery if Blacks leave the coalition because tighter immigration restrictions make it easier for them to get jobs, and school vouchers make it possible to send their children to schools with problem students filtered out? Will it be any mystery if those who immigrated legally leave the coalition because it undermines what they managed to do? If centrists leave because of the support for open borders?

There is one movement that will never make white men its enemy and will never attempt to replace them. And they’re flowing towards it and its potential for ultraviolence, while it’s being cheered on by people who should know better.

The potential for damage, including to people who had no part in this, is catastrophic. How can they be demobilized by people that have nothing to offer them? Who are themselves hypocritical sexists and racists? Who excuse the same actions they condemn them for?

I liked pretending the cracks in Liberalism didn’t exist, but, collectively, that might have allowed the situation to get this far.

politics grumpy identity politics nationalism

I hope the corrupt officials of the Earth Sphere Federation throw every Globalist in jail for meaningless political crimes. Because that’s where this ends. But they’ll throw me in instead. If there is one world government, there can be no place for me.

An Earth Federation will not allow cultural enclaves that might challenge its power, that exclude people it politically favors. It won’t allow that kind of gated community, much less a full-blown city-state. And there will be nowhere to go except Space.

grumpy uncharitable mitigated future

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.