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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
blackblocberniebros
blackblocberniebros

I mean if we’re even going to entertain the idea of minimum ages for shit like voting and serving office we should have to consider maximum ages too.

ranma-official

Disagree. Children can’t vote because 1) biologically incapable of making good decisions yet 2) parents are legally allowed to punish them for voting incorrectly.

Voting because of old age can only be a problem because of stuff like dementia, and then you’d have to disenfranchise all people who are not mentally capable of voting.

what’s currently being done if is a person is mentally incapable of voting, a handler votes for them, which is okay because handlers will probably trend towards voting for candidates that help people who are mentally incapable

we need to encourage more people to vote not disenfranchise them

blackblocberniebros

I’m saying the opposite. Since we won’t consider maximum ages, why are we considering minimum ones? Just let children vote. “Biologically incapable of making good choices” is exactly the same argument for taking away the vote from old people with dementia or the mentally ill.

mitigatedchaos

So what you’re saying here is just a roundabout way of suggesting we should disenfranchise the literally demented and the mentally ill.

And of course, taking your other reply into account, I, too, value the power of soft authoritarian technocratic dictatorship.

Unless, of course, you are suggesting that because some limits are not present due to the dangers in imposing them, other limits which already exist and aren’t particularly dangerous to enforce should not exist?

Might I suggest that the lack of wide support for this policy by a group which consists entirely of people who were once teenagers might not be quite the same thing as the other two examples?

politics
argumate
blackblocberniebros

I mean if we’re even going to entertain the idea of minimum ages for shit like voting and serving office we should have to consider maximum ages too.

ranma-official

Disagree. Children can’t vote because 1) biologically incapable of making good decisions yet 2) parents are legally allowed to punish them for voting incorrectly.

Voting because of old age can only be a problem because of stuff like dementia, and then you’d have to disenfranchise all people who are not mentally capable of voting.

what’s currently being done if is a person is mentally incapable of voting, a handler votes for them, which is okay because handlers will probably trend towards voting for candidates that help people who are mentally incapable

we need to encourage more people to vote not disenfranchise them

argumate

If children vote the same as their parents that doesn’t exactly seem unfair, given that their parents are trusted rightly or wrongly with other aspects of their well-being. And if it’s a secret ballot, they can rebel as much as they like when they feel the inclination to do so.

Plus is it really that difficult to find a 14 year old that is more politically savvy than the average 30 year old?

mitigatedchaos

I was 14 once and I certainly wouldn’t give my 14 year old self the vote. 14yo Miti did not understand much about war. 18yo Miti had far sounder judgment on such matters.

Source: blackblocberniebros politics
ranma-official
blackblocberniebros

What’s sealioning?

ranma-official

it’s when you’re discussing how much you hate all members of group A and a person from group A is like “hold up, what?”

mitigatedchaos

Okay, I laughed at that one.

To answer OP, the term is one of those SJ terms that is so easily prone to abuse that it’s poor epistemic or political hygeine or something to use it, because it can basically be used to dismiss the outgroup defending themselves.

Source: blackblocberniebros politics
xhxhxhx
xhxhxhx

collapsedsquid reblogged your post: After that exchange with @raginrayguns over the…

Do you think that’s because it’s a smaller island with a lot fewer people on it maybe?

no, not really

collapsedsquid

I’m not sure what your point is there.  You’re comparing different islands in a far off locations in a different state with different internal politics to tell me what exactly?

xhxhxhx

the idea that “a smaller island with a lot fewer people on it” would have some sort of mortality advantage doesn’t have any basis in fact, collapsedsquid, and I’m not sure where you got it from

Malta and Cyprus certainly didn’t get any sort of mortality boost just because they were small islands with few people on them

mitigatedchaos

You can make a lot of systems work if they’re small enough that might not scale otherwise.  (Singapore is small.  Mauritius is small.  Hong Kong is small.  Norway is small.)

Though in this case it isn’t really the causative factor, IMO.

He might otherwise be arguing about restoration of political unity in China or something along those lines.

politics
discoursedrome
mitigatedchaos

Well, you realize the marginal political will for vouchers is being driven by public schools’ inability to either punish or exclude problem students, right?

There’s some demand for homeschooling or religious schooling, but it isn’t what’s driving it at the margins.

collapsedsquid

Yup, those parents gotta take their kids away from the blacks and the poors. Fortunately there’ll be no blowback there.

isaacsapphire

There was literally a Battle Royal at a local public high school a couple years back. A 14 year old was arrested a couple days ago with a loaded gun. All gang related, of course.

When physical safety can’t be assured in the school, if you call it racism and classism that people want to pull their kids out, aren't​you just assuming that certain races and classes are inherently violent and criminal?

collapsedsquid

I’m saying that parents view certain races as inherently violent and criminal.  They are the ones who will be choosing where their kids go.

And this is not theoretical.  This is what actually happens.

discoursedrome

The article in question doesn’t seem like a very convincing counterargument, honestly. It’s not so much that people want to take their kids out of “ethnic” schools because they’re racist, it’s that people want their kids in good, safe schools, and those are heavily linked to class and economic factors, and those are heavily stratified by race due to legal and historical factors. But you’d see the same general pattern even in a society with no racism, it’d just be aligned on whatever axes of social inequality were most relevant in that society.

Personally, I have mixed feelings on the subject. The current system fucks up property values in ways that have negative side-effects, it’s still gameable, and it’s essentially crab-bucketing – the idea is to make it hard for even upper-class people to escape terrible hell schools, so that they’ll be motivated to make them less bad, but that doesn’t seem to have really manifested.

On the other hand, social stratification is certainly going to be worse under vouchers, and it will mark a movement to a more high-pressure cram-school type lifestyle for students. It will diminish the proportion of the population that’s trapped in the dead-end hell schools while still keeping it enormous, which increases the likelihood that they’re there for good. So it’s really a question of what percentile we want to optimize for here. Obviously, people mostly want to optimize for theirs, but it’s not at all clear to me that there’s a right answer.

mitigatedchaos

The upper class people aren’t *allowed* to make the schools less bad. When some kid comes in with the intention of starting a knife fight, knife in hand, he needs to be either punished hard, or kicked out of the school. Ideally bad behavior should be punished proportionately long before then. It doesn’t take much to disrupt a classroom if no one has the ability to remove a child or punish them for being disruptive and the kid knows it.

Many on the Left think it’s just about being discriminatory, but do people really think my parents would give a damn about the number of black kids if they were all college-bound? No, this is almost entirely about selecting the kids whose parents will punish them for causing trouble (which is what actually gives detention any teeth) and kids who actually have something to lose.

It’s been deemed unethical to allow the schools to punish the children, so that just leaves exclusion.

To prevent stratification, just don’t make the vouchers additive - you either pay only the voucher or you pay the whole thing yourself. That will allow routing around the political damage.

All this complaining about racism and classism, but who is really being hurt most by the status quo? It certainly isn’t upper middle class suburbia.

Source: thathopeyetlives politics
argumate
argumate

I feel the left (as represented here on Tumblr) is too busy looking backwards and larping the Spanish Civil War, and it’s sort of sad.

If you look back at socialist activism 100 years ago it was dynamic and offered a vision of the future that was challenging, while today it’s all about justifying failed states and bickering over whether Stalin was really that bad.

maybe there are exciting things happening in leftist enclaves somewhere, but they don’t seem to have any impact or be able to capitalise on things like the GFC or public dissatisfaction with neoliberalism.

mitigatedchaos

Anyone talking about workers’ councils is stuck in the 20th century. The future is digital and uses far more exotic organizational systems.

politics
mitigatedchaos
mitigatedchaos

@mitigatedchaos

Is this going to be the new thing now?  “Baizuo”?

@argumate

*groans*

The year is 2064.  Having given up on America and Europe, the last remaining members of the Alt Right undergo racial alteration surgery and genetic splicing to join Chairman Liu’s Neo-Chinese Empire, a governmental franchise operating seven megacities on the Asia-Pacific rim.

As a security officer at the front of the Empire’s fight against the Pan-Islamic Caliphate, a sort of distributed theocratic government with enclaves throughout Africa, the Middle East, and Europe, Victor Fang (born Richard Spencer, many years ago) is returned to Hong Kong after being injured by an IED, but he’s about to find out just how deep the Caliph’s conspiracies run…

mitigatedchaos

Discourse Questions

  • What is the value, positive or negative, of a racial ethnostate in a world where race is mutable?
  • Do the Alt Right and White Nationalists value whiteness as a terminal value, or merely as a means to other ends?  If they could, would they abandon it for some other race to obtain racial solidarity?  Would they adopt another heritage, just to have one?
  • Will governance become something marketable, that can be purchased by democratic polities and multinational conglomerates?
  • Could enclaves of Islamic Law form in Europe in order to try and maintain Liberalism?  The idea of sub-groups with their own laws is not unprecedented, after all.
  • What are the implications if jurisdictions break down into various self-governing ethnic groups, united not by the larger territories they live in but through religion and ethnicity as experienced over the Internet?
  • Can Richard Spencer ever be redeemed?  What would it take to redeem him?

Write a 5-page call-out blog post based on answering one of these six topics and submit it to Tumblr Dot Com.

close reading mitigated future politics mitigated fiction

@mitigatedchaos

Is this going to be the new thing now?  “Baizuo”?

@argumate

*groans*

The year is 2064.  Having given up on America and Europe, the last remaining members of the Alt Right undergo racial alteration surgery and genetic splicing to join Chairman Liu’s Neo-Chinese Empire, a governmental franchise operating seven megacities on the Asia-Pacific rim.

As a security officer at the front of the Empire’s fight against the Pan-Islamic Caliphate, a sort of distributed theocratic government with enclaves throughout Africa, the Middle East, and Europe, Victor Fang (born Richard Spencer, many years ago) is returned to Hong Kong after being injured by an IED, but he’s about to find out just how deep the Caliph’s conspiracies run…

shtpost mitigated future mitigated fiction politics