Oceans Yet to Burn

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mutant-aesthetic]

as morbid as it is, I wonder how many Baizou jihadis will have to kill for them to realize what’s at stake here

like after Pulse, me and every other LGBT person I knew had the same reaction

“that could have been us”

now on one hand, we did rally around LGBT muslims because they were gonna get a lot of flak because wide nets and all, and because we had a new empathy for what they escaped from, but Pulse kind of brought the war to my community

in the eyes of the Baizou, there is no war, and that won’t change until the war comes to them

[mitigatedchaos]

Is this going to be the new thing now?  “Baizuo”?

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

The irony is that the United States could have permanently transformed Afghanistan if it were more ruthless in its cultural imperialism and didn’t go to Iraq.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

theguardian.com

Manchester Arena attacker named by police as Salman Ramadan Abedi | UK news | The Guardian

[libertarirynn]

He was British born and radicalized. Not a refugee although I think his parents were from some time ago.

[patron-saint-of-smart-asses]

I feel like a lot of terrorists in the West are like that: born in their residing nation as a citizen but then radicalized. Makes me wonder what the hell is going on to do that to children of immigrant families.

[thathopeyetlives]

This is true.

They also tend to be pretty religiously unobservant

A big factor seems to be that they are strangers both to their ancestral culture and to the place they live.

[mitigatedchaos]

The parents left the places ruled by Islam and all the bad effects that come from that. The children did not. We don’t see radicalized Hindus carrying out these second generation attacks, however. Why? Most likely because Islam has latent instructions that most Muslims ignore day-to-day but which get triggered if you’re a young male outside of society - a condition Islam itself creates in countries where it is dominant (through polygyny).

The Liberals think they’re going to love and tolerate that out of existence, but it doesn’t work that way, because it isn’t ‘fake’ Islam.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitigatedchaos]

Proposition: Al Qaeda wanted to get the West to stop fking with the Middle East.  (”Terrorism is geopolitical, [not ideological].”)

Reality: No 9/11 likely means no Iraq War.

Three possibilities:

1. They were too stupid to realize invasion would be the response.

2. They were too drunk on ideology to realize invasion would be the response.

3. The proposition is false.  That wasn’t their actual goal.

[argumate]

Didn’t Osama specifically think that dragging the Americans into an endless war in Afghanistan would ruin them the same as it did the Russians?

Wasn’t his other goal to get US troops out of Saudi Arabia, and they pulled out in 2003?

[mitigatedchaos]

But that’s different than getting the US to just GTFO.

I think the motivation is in significant part ideological, not just geopolitical, because a campaign to just get the US to leave would look more like what was done by the IRA, and would likely have been far more successful.

One would look to cause large amounts of expense without large amounts of casualties, creating the political drive to Do Something, but without the political drive for an invasion.

I won’t go into them, but if one is willing to die, there are all sorts of ways to be extremely expensive to the elites that won’t create enough ire among the regular people to politically support a war effort.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Proposition: Al Qaeda wanted to get the West to stop fking with the Middle East.  (”Terrorism is geopolitical, [not ideological].”)

Reality: No 9/11 likely means no Iraq War.

Three possibilities:

1. They were too stupid to realize invasion would be the response.

2. They were too drunk on ideology to realize invasion would be the response.

3. The proposition is false.  That wasn’t their actual goal.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[afloweroutofstone]

>“Social democracies like Norway only work because they’re ethnically homogeneous and swimming in oil money”

>Small island nation of Mauritius has highest standard of living in Africa

>No natural resources

>68% Indo-Mauritian, 27% Creole, 5% other

>(Religion also split between Hindu, Catholic, and Muslim)

>Leftist parties make up vast majority of parliament

>Free healthcare and education, including college

>Right-wing Heritage Foundation still lists their economy as 15th “freest” in the world

>Ranked more democratic than the United States by the Economist Intelligence Unit

>mfw

[mitigatedchaos]

The family planning programs’ success was due to support from the government and eventually the traditionally pronatalist religious communities, which both recognized that controlling population growth was necessary because of Mauritius’ small size and limited resources.

Tight feedback loop, effects of policies more immediately obvious because there is no where to go, and percent control of the polity per person is higher.

Downturns in the sugar and textile industries in the mid-2000s and a lack of highly qualified domestic workers for Mauritius’ growing services sector led to the emigration of low-skilled workers and a reliance on skilled foreign labor.

Hmn, I wonder what impact that might have.

Since 2007, Mauritius has pursued a circular migration program to enable citizens to acquire new skills and savings abroad and then return home to start businesses and to invest in the country’s development.

This is Nationalist.  An Internationalist program would involve them leaving the island permanently.

Net migration rate: 0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2016 est.) 

Huh.  Doesn’t sound like mass migration to me.

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Of course, many of the objections to the United States becoming Singapore are based on things like its size, relative concentration of population, and so on.  …criticisms which could also apply to Mauritius.

So, OP, do you agree that the United States could become Singapore?

It seems what we have here is not an argument for Open Borders Neoliberal World™, but rather, an argument for small countries which have tight political feedback loops between policy and its effects, and high percentage of political control per person.  (Something I have been considering myself.)  This means people have to live with the consequences of their political decisions and have the ability to do something about it.

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ETA: The real question here is, can we find one of these that’s big?  Japan (127M) and Korea (50M) both fare reasonably well despite being over ten times the size of Norway (5M) and for Japan, about 100x the size of Mauritius (1.3M).  …but they’re those evil ethnically homogenous type nations we’re all supposed to hate.

[afloweroutofstone]

Your ability to constantly dance around what is being talked about and then randomly conclude that All Of Your Beliefs Are Correct continues to impress

[mitigatedchaos]

So you aren’t in favor of mass migration? Is not “mass migration is actually Good” the entire point of such rhetoric? Otherwise, there is little reason to worry about cultural replacement.

And hey, maybe you’re a full-blooded Communist and not a Neoliberal. That also works on a sufficiently small scale. Or maybe you’re a Libertarian. It doesn’t make that much difference in this case.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[afloweroutofstone]

“This multi-ethnic, religiously pluralist nation that has near-zero tariff rates and encourages citizens to live abroad for a number of years is nationalist actually, because that term means whatever I want it to”

[mitigatedchaos]

If you send citizens to study abroad and then come back to improve your own country, that is putting the country over individuals. I see now from this and your other posts that others’ assessments of you were more correct than I thought.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Inserting random Trump burns into your non-political writing might help your LibCred™, but the Trump voters already knew they were socially disapproved of, and all they’re getting is yet more “I SOCIALLY DISAPPROVE OF YOU” and they Trumped in part to spite that. So you get -1 Activism Points. I hope that feeling of smug condescension is worth it.

By the way, despite the in-jokes, it isn’t the Trump voters that are inbred. I can tell you who really is, but it’s forbidden to know.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[argumate]

Careful, you will end up with a country where everyone proudly marches on National Day, burning flags held aloft in a unifying display of patriotism…

…and people who douse the burning flags with water are considered terrorists.

[mitigatedchaos]

Protesters proudly holding up the Unity Flag of the Earth Sphere Federation as flags of the former nations their ancestors belonged to burn beneath their feet in a display of tolerance and multicultural understanding.  I grasp the bucket and-

Oh, um.  Sorry, I got the timelines mixed up again.

Protesters proudly holding up the flag of the European Union as the flags of the former countries their ancestors fought and died for burn beneath their feet in a display of tolerance, the political power that is rightfully theirs flowing away from them into an unaccountable body that is neither a band of countries nor a true federal superstate, its shining currency draining the blood from their economies.

There.  You should find that more relatable.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[rainy-days-are-over]

The thing that pisses me off most about this is I was the first to do it way way back but nobody likes it smh.

[ranma-official]

ironic how Tolkien despised Nazis and served during WW2 and then Nazis now randomly decided that orcs are a better metaphor for one of subhuman races

you piece of shit cretin

go eat a shotgun

[rendakuenthusiast]

Tolkien served during WWI, not WWII. Also he almost certainly would’ve politically supported drastically anti-Muslim and anti-foreigner political policies, what with him being a Medievalist Catholic conservative who wrote a bunch of texts to try to promote a very specifically English mythology.

[the-grey-tribe]

I actually recall that the SJW position on Tolkien circa 2010 was that LOTR was racist and the Easterlings are Arabians. With the right justification, you can get people to say pro-orc stuff.

[wirehead-wannabe]

I mean, I don’t think LOTR is, like, morally harmful or that Tolkien was a bad person or whatever but it seems pretty obviously true that the characters and setting are racist?

[mitigatedchaos]

This so-called “Orc Biodiversity Movement” is nothing but a cover for extreme raci–

*coughing*

Sorry, don’t know what came over me there.

Yes, the races in LOTR are literally biologically distinct, not just in healthspan and shape, but in behavior, and thus it could be argued as being quite racist, and having set a precedent for fantastic racism for the Standard Fantasy Setting thereafter.

The right-wingers, I think, care less and less what the left-wingers think, and have decided to go whole hog on their shtposting since they’ll be denounced either way.  Thus the above image, which is certainly not very fair at all.