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See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna

@bambamramfan

To be sure, but we have to decide whether we think those tactics are just strategically ineffective, or actually ethically wrong. If you try to say “both”, then you’re going to face some hard choices on the day it looks like a nasty tactic can get you a victory (and that day always comes.)

Well, there is not only a question of effectiveness and morality, but there is also a question of trust.

Brutal tactics can backfire, but they can also work.  And there are times and places that even I might be willing to engage in those tactics.

But those tactics are costly, and there is far too much temptation to use them in situations where it is not warranted - in part because political ideologies thrive on a siege mentality and treating themselves as the underdog, even when they are actually quite popular or are even in the middle of going Full Overdog and bulldozing everything and everyone in their path.  

A lot of actual, literal Nazis had to be shot during the second World War to put an end to the Nazi regime.  Since the alternatives were worse, I would say it was correct - and perhaps even praiseworthy - to do so.  

However, lots of people have been tricked into killing and dying for terrible political ideologies over the years, so my bar for when to use these sorts of tactics is a lot higher.  And, here’s the trust part - I don’t trust the kinds of people who are hyped about this latest punching incident to keep that bar high.  And ironically, exactly the sorts of people who are saying “hey, wait a minute” instead of cheering are the people I would trust more on when to initiate political violence.

If we could actually have a nice clear line at “it’s okay to punch people who openly call for genocide or certain genocide”, that might be okay.  But let’s be realistic.  That isn’t going to happen.  Politicals will deliberately blur the boundaries in order to be allowed to punch people they want to punch.  They already distort definitions of words like “violence” and “racism” for their own ends.  There is no reason to believe they would stop.  …and then the counter-punching would begin.

Thus I’m stuck opposing punching Nazis even though under other circumstances I might permit it.

politics ideology

@ranma-official

I’m not the biggest anarchist either, but anarchism is really important for the same reason libertarianism is: you need people constantly questioning “do we really need this regulation?” and nitpicking everything you do or you just cede a bunch of power to the state for no reason and won’t get it back.

Oh, I came around to a view not so different from that one a few years ago.  The vast majority of states are not so… let’s call it “technocratic” as to say “let us regularly prune regulations that are ineffective and put mandatory sunset provisions into all of our laws”.  Nor, for that matter, is the typical government as careful as it should be about making laws in the first place.  And quite frankly, the typical voter isn’t going to make them behave like that.  So it’s useful to have Anarchists and Libertarians around.

I just still don’t like Anarchism, even if it’s useful.  Of course, you won’t see me calling for punching, firing, doxxing, etc Anarchists.  Sometimes you might see me argue with them on the Internet.

anarchism politics ideology
bambamramfan
marcusseldon

I said I’d talk about politics less, but I feel like I do need to get this out of my system. 

There’s an idea going around both on my dash, and people I know in person, that the behavior of people on the left is what caused Trump to be elected. Different groups get the blame, whether it is rich white liberals in Silicon Valley, DC, and Hollywood, the campus left, black lives matter, internet SJWs and feminists, mainstream media journalists, late night comedians, or some combination of these, the theory goes that Trump was essentially a white working class middle finger to the condescension, radicalism, and disrespect toward traditional values of members of these various left-wing groups. People who put forward this theory say that to win back Trump voters, the left needs to be kinder, more compassionate, and less radical toward white working class (WWC) culture, values, and way of life. The claim is that if only the left were nicer to WWC people and respected their way of life more, Trump would have never even won a Republican primary, let alone an electoral college majority.

Now, leaving aside whether it would be personally moral and virtuous to be more compassionate and less radical toward the WWC (probably to at least some extent), I want to raise doubts about whether this perspective is actually useful for winning elections and defeating Trumpism.

No doubt many WWC people, and those sympathetic to them, feel condescended to, disrespected, and that their way of life is under attack by the left. There is also no doubt that there have been individuals and groups on the left that have been openly hostile to the WWC way of life, where “white male” is an insult, conservative Christians are publicly degraded and mocked, performative flag-waving nationalism is seen as not just gauche but stupid and hick-ish, and where white rural people are assumed to be personally racist and homophobic.

But, all political movements are going to have their assholes who degrade the other side and openly disrespect them. It’s easy to miss when you largely live in left-wing bubbles online and off, which I imagine is true of most people on my dash, and is certainly true of me, but the right has their own version of this, and it’s popular. There’s a post going around my dash about a condescending line in a Meryl Streep speech, and how this is an example of liberal condescension that created Trump, but I guarantee you that more people listen to Rush Limbaugh or Sean Hannity on the radio every day than saw that Meryl Streep speech. And Limbaugh and Hannity on an almost daily basis disrespect, mock, and condescend to liberal constituencies, values, and ways of life. And guess what, Republicans still won.

People like Limbaugh and Hannity, not to mention Fox News and Breitbart, make their money by inflaming a sense of grievance and resentment of the left among the disproportionately rural, older, religious, and WWC Republican base. These outlets have far more political reach and power than random SJW blogs, the campus left, black lives matter, actors or tech billionaires giving speeches, or even late night comedians. 

In the educated liberal bubbles that I and many people in my online and offline circles reside in, the reverse can seem true. It can seem like left-wing culture is omnipresent and the right is completely stifled by blacks lives matter, SJWs, and late night comedians. But in other circles, which comprise nearly half the country, the reverse is true. 

In many ways, the left is already on net more compassionate to the WWC than the right is to left-wing constituencies. There were countless articles in left-wing outlets talking to Trump voters in order to understand and sympathize with Trump voters. I don’t think I’ve ever once seen an article in a right-wing outlet that went to Harlem, San Francisco, or Ann Arbor, trying to compassionately understand the motivations and lifestyle of people on the other side from their point of view.

So the idea that the left must hold itself to an even higher standard on compassion and  than the right to win elections seems implausible to me (again, leaving aside whether holding ourselves to a higher standard would be more virtuous and moral). 

Even if the left was nicer to the WWC, I don’t see that changing vote patterns, or making the WWC feel any less resentful and under attack. Suppose 90% of the left-wing people who are being blamed for the rise of Trumpism became nicer. The Limbaughs and Hannitys and Breitbarts of the world, and the millions who follow them, wouldn’t take a step back and say “you know, maybe the left doesn’t hate me or my way of life”. No. They would continue to cherry pick the worst examples, as they already do, from a smaller set of mean liberals in order to inflame cultural resentment and grievance among their followers, and they would also continue to see things that I think aren’t mean and are true that the left says, like that black people have a rougher relationship with the police than other groups, as offensive and attacking their dignity and way of life.

I’m not saying there’s no way to convince some of these people over to the left. But, pointing the finger at the meaner (and numerically smaller) strains of the left and thinking that if only for them being condescending and disrespectful we would be in a golden age of liberal dominance in politics doesn’t strike me as true or productive.

bambamramfan

So I get your frustration, and a lot of what you say is correct. It’s far too tempting to say “Hey leftists-who-disagree-with-me, YOU’RE the reason our enemy won!” without sufficient proof. That’s just opportunism.

And we should treat the WWC (and all of the WC) in this country with compassion, and we should help their material needs, regardless of whether it wins us elections. Trying to come up with political justifications for basic human decency is a bit creepy.

(Plus, not to mention a Far Right resurgence is occurring across the entire developed world. It seems very petty to blame that on a few annoying American liberals. There are deeper trends here.)

I feel you here.


However, there is some countervailing evidence here.

1. If we’re not being condescending to them, we should listen to what our enemies are saying. And in between accusations of corruption and defending the free market, Republican voters seem really, really upset about Political Correctness. Obsessed with it, and explicitly saying they support idiots like Trump just to defy Political Correctness.

You can dismiss what they say and come up with other reasons they voted the way they did (they just want to be racist, or economic anxiety) but then that is being patronizing because you aren’t really listening anymore. If you listen, Political Correctness is a huge deal to them, and teasing out the source of that sounds like a worthwhile endeavor.

2. A lot of this is just projection from some left-of-center allies about the illiberal tactics used by establishment social justice, such as extreme arrogance, dismissiveness, shallow analysis, using institutional power to punish dissenters, and a bunch of other mindkilling, groupthink tactics. Said allies (or, former allies) really hated those tactics, and so rejoice in blaming them for the defeat of the mainstream SJ candidate.

Projection is not a good source of analysis of course, and so they might be wrong that this really caused Trump’s victory. But said establishment really should pay attention to how many enemies it has, even “on its own side.” Their tactics are really ticking off their friends, causing dissension every step away. SJ can try to ignore this dissent and pain as long as they wield the hammer, but don’t be surprised when their enemies leap at any weakness as a chance to earn some rhetorical points.

Social justice has enraged and alienated conservatives, libertarians, moderates, socialists, communists, and artsy anarchists. At some point it will have no friends left except the business-friendly / socially liberal wing of a city-based party.

3. Something happened between 2012 and 2016. There’s some reason Republicans started really getting into unbridled rudeness and race-baiting. You can’t even wholly blame Trump for finally opening the floodgates, he tried in 2012. What the hell happened to make voters so much more racist, or at least racist-tolerant? It’s not like there are a lot more immigrants around or other normal causes of racial strife (let alone to explain the tolerance of crude sexual behavior.)

And to the unaided eye, one of the real changes of the past 4 years was the political visibility of intolerant liberalism. So it’s at least worth considering “the thing that changed in the last 4 years, is somewhat responsible for the rather different outcome this time around.”

mitigatedchaos

Regarding #1: If a 100% black company is okay, but a 100% white company “isn’t diverse enough”, this implies whites are inherently worth less than PoC. If women have equal beneficial capabilities to men, but men are uniquely violent and oppressive, this implies women are better than men.

I think people can feel this even if they don’t consciously realize it.

Also, as one of those alienated types, those tactics you mention make SJ a liability to me in many ways.

Source: marcusseldon politics gender politics race politics trump
funereal-disease
funereal-disease

It’s honestly so fucked up that I have to worry in leftist spaces that talking about rehabilitative justice will lose me friends.

In 2010 I took a class called Terrorism in the Modern World, which was one of the best classes I’ve ever taken. We learned all about the causes and cyclical effects of terrorism, about why people get seduced by dangerous worldviews, about how we cannot possibly offer more than palliative solutions until we reckon with the task of trying to understand them. About how futile America’s endless escalations have been. It was awesome.

The following year, when Osama bin Laden was killed, all my liberal friends joined me in reminding the world that he might have done terrible evil, but he was still a human being. We huddled together to grin smugly about how much more empathetic we were than those evil hawkish conservatives. Not that I endorse that, but we were 18. Point is, at the time we construed liberalism, and leftism more broadly, as an explicit rejection of the vengeful, punitive ethic that was blanketing our world. And I know we were not alone in that. Liberals around me talked about prison reform, about transitions from criminal dysfunction back to a productive life, about reaching out to the people who were hardest to reach. I was, at that time, proud to call myself a bleeding-heart liberal.

And now I’m seeing them, the very same leftists who joined me in calling for empathy with our enemies, posting endless diatribes against those they deem too far gone for any kind of understanding. The same people who stood up in a sea of patriotic zeal and reminded us that terrorists were real human beings with motivations beyond mustache-twirling villainy are the people I see calling Trump supporters garbage, calling them worthless, calling any attempt to understand them “collusion with the oppressor”. I’m over here advocating the same exact outreach I’ve advocated all my life, the same outreach you once praised me for, but now because it’s your pet enemy I’m evil and weak and awful for it.

These were once my people, and now I don’t recognize them. I’m horrified to see them acting exactly like post-9/11 nationalist zealots, dismissing any attempt at understanding or empathy as spineless, as cowardly, as oppressive. You think I haven’t heard this all before? I’ve heard it all my life. I was a child when 9/11 happened. I don’t remember a United States not at war in the Middle East. My whole life I’ve been a pacifist, raised by pacifist parents in a pacifist community, and my whole life I’ve heard that trying to understand and reach out to your enemy instead of fucking annihilating them was weak and cowardly and siding with the terrorists. The difference is that I once had the left on my side.

Your principles do not cease to apply when it’s your pet enemy on the chopping block. Believe it or not, people who got cruel and hawkish in the face of terrorism were exactly as scared and powerless-feeling as you are now. They weren’t spouting martial rhetoric out of pure evil - there was real fear there, but they let it make them into hateful people with no sense of empathy or common humanity. Like hell I’m going to let that happen to people I once called mine.

mitigatedchaos

The thing is that the Left has always been like this.  It was the Left who perpetrated Communism in its worst incarnations, after all.

…not that I want to rag on Communism too much, since I already criticize it often enough.  It’s just that the sentiment of having a bloody revolution, crushing dissent, and purging all who don’t fit with the vision is something that has historical precedent on the Left just like it does on the Right.

politics

I strongly suspect those calling for keeping killers around because “it’s a worse punishment” don’t actually want to keep them around - they want the killers to be killed multiple times, brutally deprived of multiple lifespans, in order to desperately somehow try to make up for what was taken.

They want to win a status game against the killers.

To do that, however, one would have to take other, dramatic measures, such as erasing serial killers to destroy fame, or harvesting them for blood or organs to flip their number into a net gain.  Both measures are dangerous.

The argument is also a justification to themselves because they know they’re supposed to be “civilized”.

politics
argumate

Accelerationism

argumate

You have to drive a school bus to the top of a mountain and clearly the most efficient way of doing this is to drive the bus off a cliff, plunge down into a ravine and smash into a thousand pieces on the rocks far below.

Now that you are no longer held back by the constraints of existing school bus technology you can build a newer, better bus, that can get you to the top of the mountain in half the time the old bus would-

oh wait you died in the crash along with all of your passengers, oops

politics
remedialaction
mitigatedchaos

@remedialaction

Like how the birth of farm machines meant the excess former farmers were unemployed forever, huh?

A sector largely requiring large amounts of unskilled labor is replaced by a sector largely requiring large amounts of unskilled labor.  In what ways might the current situation be different from that?

Horses’ power and speed were their primary economic interest.  Once machines were able to do this better and cheaper, with horses limited to niche applications, what happened to the horses?  

Humans’ intelligence is unique in the economy, but machines are now becoming more and more intelligent and adaptable.  In one sector this might just displace workers, but what happens when it applies to all sectors simultaneously?  Why would you hire a human worker, who cannot work below a certain minimum due to resource requirements to survive, rather than just use a machine that does the same thing for less money?

Is there any law of economics that requires that someone’s maximum feasible production be enough for them to survive?  Remember to account for opportunity cost of the necessary resources in your answer, such as real estate being purchased by those with orders of magnitude higher productivity.

It seems there rather clearly isn’t such a law since economically non-viable people already exist.

This position of yours appears to stem from an ideological pre-commitment to Capitalism, and I say this as someone that argues against Communists.  The ability of Capitalism to outperform Stalin on human suffering is conditional, and those conditions have held for a long time, but that is slowly changing.

remedialaction

I take some exception to the very term ‘unskilled labor’ as a general term, because agricultural work is not 'unskilled’ and neither were the various manufacturing jobs that often replaced them. These are not skill sets that have cross over. So we start off with that error, but I’ll say right now I can already see you’re missing my point, but I’ll get to that.

The flaw here is comparing an animal who was used for an end (horses) and the animal that built the system (humans.) That is even putting aside the idea that somehow machines will become intelligent and adaptable enough to displace workers in the first place, a reality that is likely not nearly as close as we think. Indeed, there is a flaw that even if we did, the idea we’d be able to replicate the human way of thinking is itself improbable. And the idea that it would happen and suddenly penetrate every industry simultaneously is itself flawed.

Further, I think you’re also missing the point by your claim that this is based on an ideological pre-commitment to Capitalism, to which I’d argue, as opposed to what? The flaw here is capitalism, which is private ownership of 'capital’ (really, property, as the designation of capital is frankly arbitrary) and the exchange there of with other private individuals. At its core, it is an expression of individual rights. The only other option would be a disregard for individual rights, and implicitly authoritarianism of some form or another. I’m an individualist, I’m anti-authoritarian, therefor, I am capitalist, not the other way around

I also think you’re arguing something I don’t believe and never have. I would argue that folks may very well hire humans out of their desire to do so, as humans are not and never have been homo economicus, but that is largely an aside to the real point.

My real point is actually that whatever the next revolution is, the ability to predict its effects is likely beyond any living human in any real capacity, in the same way that predictions for the Industrial Revolution were themselves largely impossible until we passed into it and could adapt to the particulars of it. I largely think doomsaying can be set aside because it seems to disregard that humans will shape the system to suit humans.

And what, exactly, is the alternatives? No one seems to have proposed anything somehow forestall this supposed doom of robots taking our jerbs. The supposed 'fixes’ are little more than rehashes of old policies that didn’t work then and won’t work now, and/or are ethically compromised.

As an aside, I’d argue the vast majority of folks who fall under 'economical unviable’ do so for reasons beyond actual economic concerns, and more to due with government intervention, but that’s largely my anarchism, I suspect.

mitigatedchaos

I take some exception to the very term ‘unskilled labor’ as a general term, because agricultural work is not 'unskilled’ and neither were the various manufacturing jobs that often replaced them. These are not skill sets that have cross over. So we start off with that error, but I’ll say right now I can already see you’re missing my point, but I’ll get to that.

They’re both skillsets which don’t require as much training or IQ.  Putting someone to work on an assembly line is not something which requires a four year degree’s worth of education (though I’m sure you’ll argue that the training isn’t really required, regardless of whether it is) and an IQ over 110.

The flaw here is comparing an animal who was used for an end (horses) and the animal that built the system (humans.) 

In other words, the human beings will change the system away from purist Capitalism before it destroys them and replaces them with a more economically efficient form of matter.  Capitalism does use people for ends.  Employment is an unwanted side effect of production that so-called “job creators” do not actually want.

That is even putting aside the idea that somehow machines will become intelligent and adaptable enough to displace workers in the first place, a reality that is likely not nearly as close as we think. 

It doesn’t need to displace all workers, just those with an IQ below some amount, in order to cause problems with mass unemployment.  As for how close it is, well, factories in China are performing layoffs in favor of automation, warehouses are getting factor 5-6x reductions in staff, it’s hitting lawyers with tools for document search, and doctors, and so on.

You have to remember that even if jobs still exist, the number of applicants kicked out of other sectors can drive down the wages to unsustainable levels because the amount of most categories of services actually needed by the economy are limited.  (eg, if a typical plumber can fix X pipes per hour, and there are Y pipes needed per person normally without much more gain from Y+1 pipes, then the number of plumbers that it’s beneficial to have is limited.)

Indeed, there is a flaw that even if we did, the idea we’d be able to replicate the human way of thinking is itself improbable. 

“A computer will never defeat human masters at Go.  Surely that can’t happen, it’s far too intuitive of a game.”

And, computers don’t actually have to think like humans to displace human workers.  They often come at things in ways we would consider sideways.

And the idea that it would happen and suddenly penetrate every industry simultaneously is itself flawed.

By and large, computers have penetrated every industry over the last several decades.  Suggesting robots won’t penetrate almost every industry at once is almost proposing that capitalists will simply leave money on the table and that capitalism is not efficient.

Further, I think you’re also missing the point by your claim that this is based on an ideological pre-commitment to Capitalism, to which I’d argue, as opposed to what? The flaw here is capitalism, which is private ownership of 'capital’ (really, property, as the designation of capital is frankly arbitrary) and the exchange there of with other private individuals. At its core, it is an expression of individual rights. The only other option would be a disregard for individual rights, and implicitly authoritarianism of some form or another. I’m an individualist, I’m anti-authoritarian, therefor, I am capitalist, not the other way around 

If participation in the market is necessary for survival, then participation in the market is not truly voluntary.  It doesn’t matter that a specific agent isn’t holding the gun to mandate it - it is nonetheless mandatory.  Capitalism is just another form of hierarchy, and ideal Capitalism does not and cannot exist.  Of course, individual rights are purely an intermediate node, too, and always were.

Put simply, Capitalism is an amoral (not moral or immoral) resource production and distribution algorithm.  Its moral value derives purely from its consequences.  Treating it any other way is bound to cause disappointment.

I also think you’re arguing something I don’t believe and never have. I would argue that folks may very well hire humans out of their desire to do so, as humans are not and never have been homo economicus, but that is largely an aside to the real point. 

The relative popularity of check-out kiosks at grocery stores, and other low-human-contact services such as internet retailers trouncing brick and mortars, suggest that this is limited to a niche appeal only… sort of like horses.

My real point is actually that whatever the next revolution is, the ability to predict its effects is likely beyond any living human in any real capacity, in the same way that predictions for the Industrial Revolution were themselves largely impossible until we passed into it and could adapt to the particulars of it. I largely think doomsaying can be set aside because it seems to disregard that humans will shape the system to suit humans.

…by passing laws to make it not purist Capitalism anymore.

And what, exactly, is the alternatives? No one seems to have proposed anything somehow forestall this supposed doom of robots taking our jerbs. The supposed 'fixes’ are little more than rehashes of old policies that didn’t work then and won’t work now, and/or are ethically compromised.

It’s only ethically compromised if you’re foolish enough to think Capitalism is a moral system and that property rights are not subordinate to utility.  (Yeah I know that’s dangerous ground to tread (even if it’s true), but as you’ll see below, my solution isn’t that radical, because I’m aware that it’s dangerous.)  Furthermore, while it’s great at producing large volumes of goods, Capitalism with work-or-starve is already fundamentally ethically compromised, and therefore any complaints that “oh, it’s immoral to do something that isn’t pure Capitalism” are ungrounded.  

Also quite frankly, unless you support giving the whole of the land of the United States of America back to the descendants of the natives, then you don’t really believe in transcendent moral property rights that are beyond the bounds of human invention and therefore systematic human alterations.  Unlike other human beings themselves, who would continue to exist if we erased all our data and memories about them, allocated property rights as we know them would be almost totally gone if all the data about them were erased.  They’re just a human invention - a useful one, but only a tool.  (Yes, I know animals have territorial behaviors, but that isn’t property rights as we know it.)

As for solutions…

Across-the-board wage subsidies (edit: it’s a bit more complicated than that but you get the idea - not favoring specific industries) would not only avoid drawing the ire of economists, but allow society to lower the minimum wage dramatically (as many economic freedom types want - despite their ignoring the massive negotiating power disparity).  Job choice would expand a great deal, putting a lot more bargaining power in the hands of low level workers.  The program can be rolled out incrementally and reversed if it does not work - unlike socialist revolution.  It promotes membership in the community and could help fix improverished regions such as inner cities, by reconnecting them to the normal societal status hierarchy instead of them being disconnected from it and inventing new status hierarchies that cause collateral damage.  It would also help to get people off of welfare, and recover a portion of the economic value that would normally be lost to welfare payments.

As an aside, I’d argue the vast majority of folks who fall under 'economical unviable’ do so for reasons beyond actual economic concerns, and more to due with government intervention, but that’s largely my anarchism, I suspect.

I can’t say I agree there.  It’s far too convenient for your worldview to simply ignore the effects of disability, mental illness, and age, and simply handwave it all away as the fault of the state.

Source: mitigatedchaos politics capitalism robot jobpocalypse
collapsedsquid
collapsedsquid

Today I want to overthrow our economic system and replace it with one that can make shoes that last at least a full goddamn year without falling apart.

mitigatedchaos

I have an idea for this that doesn’t destroy the whole economic system!

The simple version is to make all products carry mandatory insurance for a number of years based on the product’s functional category - this can also be used to relax some safety standards.

This will increase the cost of a product at the start, but it reveals previously-hidden reliability information to consumers, and uses their cheapo behavior to drive down risk and drive up reliability.  It also turns reliability from something management can skimp on to temporarily drive up the profits at the company before bailing and leaving in the brand in ruins, into a monthly or annual expense attached to every pair of shoes from which the management cannot escape.

The insurance company is going to be pissed if they have to payout on a batch of cruddy six-month shoes.  They will fight with the management over dumb cost-cutting measures.

policy politics shoes insurance
bambamramfan
bambamramfan

If you’ve been enjoying this analysis, and think you enjoy superhero stories with rich themes regarding moral philosophy, you should try Strong Female Protagonist.

Tagline: “What are you going to do, punch poverty in the face?”

mitigatedchaos

Well you could always turn a crank repeatedly for a while.

I’d actually been looking for this comic as I had forgotten to bookmark it and forgot what it was called. Many super powers, however, can be monetized, and then the money distributed through a charitable foundation. Just imagine how much money can be saved on rocket launches for a start. Or freezing an enormous chunk of salt water into ice and then moving it, as superman is able to. Wealthy people would pay handsomely to nearly teleport packages. The question is, since they are distributed randomly, do you get one of these monetizable super powers, or do you get some seemingly useless power like the ability to see cats through walls?

The other issue being, of course, that states need supers to defend against other supers.

bambamramfan

We could do many things more efficiently with superpowers. That’s called technology.

The question every generation needs to ask itself, is why are the fruits of this technology not shared equitably among all, like the dreams of the previous generation said they would be?

Keynes on the 15 hour work week that we’d have any day now.

I don’t say this all just to be a socialist troll. I legitimately worry that many people I respect are putting great effort into developing technologies they hope will free everyone from work, and will be heartbroken when they are hoarded and artificially limited from 90% of the population.

mitigatedchaos

If it makes you feel better, as a software developer I generally vote left-wing for this very reason.  But you probably gathered that already from my support for wage subsidies/UBI, and self-reports of trying to scare people out of economically right-wing views using the coming robot jobpocalypse.  (Not that I think most of the tech is being “artificially” limited in availability.)

Though I do wish they’d quit using identity politics against me, trying to kill Nationalism, giving free passes to foreign religions on contrarianism, and trying to make open borders a reality, among many, many other things.

In fact, I’m growing in confidence that I will be considered “right wing” in ten or twenty years, even though my positions won’t have changed significantly.

politics
argumate
immanentizingeschatons

I’m really, really worried that Peter Thiel’s support for Trump is going to lead to a public backlash against transhumanism, which so far has mostly managed to stay obscure enough to avoid it.

argumate

god it would be terrible if they banned our life-extending nanobot cultures-

wait we don’t even have those yet :(

mitigatedchaos

I mean, there is plenty of reason for the Left/SJ to decide that they hate Transhumanism already.  Many Transhumanists are white, they’re male, and they live in circumstances that allow them to even think about the future like that in the first place rather than desperately trying to survive until the next day.

And while, hypothetically, the Left/SJ is supposed to respect neurodivergence, in practice they often don’t.

When it comes to left-leaning moral virtue, there are multiple vectors for attack.  It’s bound to be somewhat expensive, it will be decried as Ableist, probably those able to afford the first wave will be mostly white, it makes some people just straight-up better than others, it doesn’t truly respect other cultures, the list goes on and on and on.

I give it 50-50 SJ/the Left decides Transhumanism is an Evil Hated Outgroup.  The other 50 depends on the Right coming down hard on it so that it gets protected by Leftist contrarianism, like Islam.

Source: immanentizingeschatons politics transhumanism