1.5M ratings
277k ratings

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Sounds perfect Wahhhh, I don’t wanna
slartibartfastibast
mitigatedchaos

War between nation-states, or with factions willing and able to use explosions as weapons, may require explosions.

However, there is a duty to not be a complete fucking idiot about it and invade a country that had nothing to do with the explosions that happened to your country, killing thousands or more, destabilizing the region, and creating the environment suitable for the rise of a violent theocracy.

If one cannot pass this very simple hurdle, one has no business using explosions for any purpose.

politics the iron hand
theunitofcaring

There are two different things that both get called “price gouging”

fnord888

They’re both characterized by a situation of sudden (and unpredicted) scarcity because of a breakdown in the usual supply chain that provides a good, and the price of that newly scarce good increasing dramatically.

One is where someone who already has a stock of the newly scarce good increases the price and reaps a windfall profit from the event. The other is where someone acts to increase the supply of the newly scarce good, and charges a price commensurate with the extraordinary measures required to do so (ordinary measures, by definition, no longer being adequate to provide a supply).

There are good reasons why we might want to treat these two cases differently, and yet I see very few people, on either side of the debate, willing to make the distinction.

theunitofcaring

In particular, if you put in tons of time and effort driving supplies to a disaster area from somewhere unaffected by the storm, you should be allowed to sell things for whatever price they sell at. Because getting more supplies to a disaster is good and if you’re not allowed to sell above a stupid definition of ‘at cost’ that doesn’t take into account ‘putting a thousand miles on my car’ or ‘losing my entire weekend’ or ‘the risk that I was wrong and this wouldn’t be needed’ then there will just be fewer supplies for disaster survivors.

And yes, the laws get used that way: After Katrina a guy heard that people needed generators, so he bought 19 of them in Kentucky, rented a U-Haul, and drove them to New Orleans. The police arrested him and confiscated the generators (which they did not distribute to disaster survivors). He intended to sell them at double the cost, and people were eager to buy them at that price. He served four months in our brutal inhumane prison system for ‘price gouging.’

mitigatedchaos

And yes, the laws get used that way: After Katrina a guy heard that people needed generators, so he bought 19 of them in Kentucky, rented a U-Haul, and drove them to New Orleans. The police arrested him and confiscated the generators (which they did not distribute to disaster survivors).

Yeah, this is what I’m worried about.  The law will end up being written in a stupid way that makes the situation worse than not having a law.

Source: fnord888 the invisible fist the iron hand
sadoeconomist
anunreliablesource

The article about “why we need price gouging in times of crisis”, is some odd shit. I can assure you that there is plenty of water to go round, even if it isn’t as much as normal. Many people did buy ahead of time, however when you get 28 inches of water in 3 hours instead of 3 days and you have to leave your home, you are not carrying the case of water. So kindly fuck off with you random garbage articles, I disconnect with most ancaps when it comes to compassion. Do I believe we need laws, nope, but I believe we need compassion, and Joe Blow selling water for $42 is anything but compassionate. This is the very reason a lot of people do not believe an anarchist, free market, voluntary society can work. I am watching my neighbors who have never flooded be plucked from their homes in boats, losing their entire life, and I got to read that fucking trash. Kindly fuck off. Want to show the world anarchy can work, do like the countless people out lending a hand, donate a case of water, come help me cook for the shelter, and STFU.

sadoeconomist

This is precisely when people attack the price system, though, because people have the moral intuition that someone selling at higher-than-normal prices is doing something wicked and must be responsible for the price being that high, when they aren’t at all. The authorities interfering to stop local prices from being allowed to rise during a crisis is exactly why famines happened historically, it’s something that turns a localized temporary disaster into something worse. Price ceilings always create shortages, and that’s precisely what you don’t want in an emergency situation.

The choice isn’t between the guy selling water bottles for $42 or him giving them away, it’s between letting him sell them for $42 or not having water bottles there at all. Yeah, he isn’t being altruistic, but his greed is actually leading him to contribute to disaster relief efforts by showing up with water instead of staying home. You’re not being compassionate to disaster victims by telling those people to stay home if they’re not going to help for free, you’re taking away their opportunity to buy water that they apparently need badly enough they’re willing to pay $42 for it. The greedy asshole who was induced to drive from several states away with a truck full of water bottles just to try to make a quick buck is possibly making the difference between life and death for some people in need, even if he doesn’t have an ounce of compassion. The moral intuition you’ve got about price-gougers is backwards - that’s the important insight those articles are spreading, and this is exactly the time to spread it. If anti-gouging laws get passed after this hurricane, those guys won’t risk jail time to show up for the next one, and there will be a shortage where people can’t find drinkable water at any price. Trying to prevent that is beneficial as well.

Compassion is great, but one of anarchy’s greatest strengths is that it doesn’t actually require compassion to work, that people without any compassion in their hearts are still led by greed to work for the benefit of others anyway. A system that only works when people are eager to sacrifice their self-interest to serve others doesn’t work at all.

mitigatedchaos

Okay, but “no price-gouging laws” isn’t incompatible with improved civil defense infrastructure, and calling it “anarchy” is stretching it.  If the situation destabilized enough they’d call in the army, and there is still very much the risk of prosecution if you kill the man selling waters for $42 and take all of his waters, once the disaster clears.

Rebellion and break down in law & order in any area of the country undermines the authority of the state as the ruler and monopolizer of force and arbiter of law.  Desperation is a key factor in breaking down law & order.  Therefore, it would be prudent to create caches of limited, key supplies (such as clean water, water filters, and MREs) at various points in the country, cycling them out as donations to poverty organizations (or selling them) as they near expiration.

This serves both the internal (preventing looting, rioting, and loss of faith in the government) and external (decreasing the amount of death and dysfunction in the event of enemy attack) security primary functions of the state, and increases the scale of hazardous events required to bring down the government.  Improvements in civil defense infrastructure also act as a multiplier on available military force as a credible threat for use in international politics.

Source: anunreliablesource evil statist politics the invisible fist the iron hand
brazenautomaton

Anonymous asked:

Sometimes, 14-15 year olds have to take on adult responsibilities for their families. A hardship license would allow them to drive and take on a job.

thesymbolofpeace answered:

They shouldn’t have to work how is that not against child labor laws that’s a kid

guidancerune

problem: families dealing with poverty when their parents cant sustain the family on their own

stupid idiot solution: aid programs, base income, fair housing

smart brain genius solution: Child Labour 2: Electric Boogaloo

brazenautomaton

galaxy buddha brain solution: “they shouldn’t have to do this thing in order to solve their problem, so I will wisely prevent them from solving their problem at all, because the moment the problem leaves my vision cone I will forget about it entirely except for the vague sense I am a Good Person who does Good Things”

this is how you get california housing laws

mitigatedchaos

This is the real risk of the opposite approach.  The family ends up at the whims of the state bureaucracy, which may be dysfunctional or even deliberately rendered dysfunctional by politicals.

So unless your ideology specifically includes, in its doctrines, that you must be constantly checking on the effectiveness of the state bureaucracy, not to cut it, but to make sure what you’re doing actually works and isn’t just something you thought might work, you have to be careful.

Source: thesymbolofpeace the invisible fist the iron hand

Who captures a wage subsidy?

Basically every benefit we give to the working poor ends up being an indirect subsidy for business - see, for example, employers telling their employees how to obtain food stamps.

One of the complaints about a wage subsidy over a higher minimum wage is that it will just be captured by employers, who will pay their employees less by that amount.  That’s also potentially true of a basic income, and with a minimum wage, employers may opt to gain non-monetary compensation (e.g. terrible hours).

Now, here’s where the limits of my economics education probably show a bit, in that I’m not familiar with the literature on how, empirically, this works out.  (Maybe @xhxhxhx can chime in.)

I realized that this is actually related to the marginal productivity of labor - how much revenue (and thus, potentially, profit) does each additional employee bring in, across the whole economy?  There are limits to this based on the amount of equipment/capital needed for a marginal employee or marginal hours, including facility size, as well as the potential customers it might bring in (e.g. why haven’t they hired additional labor already?).

The reason for this is that to determine the leverage of a low-wage employee under a wage subsidy system, we need to know how many potential jobs our wage subsidy can create, and at what quality.  How easy is it for an employee to just walk right out of the store, walk right in to another store, and get a new job?  Even if the pay is somewhat lower, this creates a much stronger incentive against bad hours, bad bosses, and unsafe practices, about which employees will then either demand higher pay, or just tell the employers to knock it off.

However, that increase in leverage only occurs if enough potential jobs emerge, and this is more or less an empirical question.

The greater the marginal increase in the number of jobs per marginal decrease in minimum wage prior to subsidy, the more of the subsidy that will be captured by the workers.  However, if cutting the minimum wage creates no new jobs, then leverage doesn’t change much at all and employers capture the majority of the subsidy.

If the leverage is high enough, wages may even be driven higher than they were prior to the subsidy, depending on employer margins that they were exploiting leverage over against employees.

However, since employers capturing part of the subsidy is potentially true for all subsidies for the working poor, even rental vouchers or healthcare, it has to be compared with other alternatives (such as basic income).

(For my preferred implementation, the accompanying decrease in minimum wage should be lower than the wage subsidy, and the wage subsidy should be paid directly to the employee, thus at least not resulting in a decrease in effective income even if the entire subsidy is captured.)

the invisible fist the iron hand economics flagpost policy
bambamramfan
bambamramfan

So in the discussion over whether internet companies can deny hosting to Nazis (such as here and here), I admit I see both sides. I understand the concerns that this grants too much discretionary power to large establishments about what speech is allowed on the internet, and I understand that “Nazis marching in the streets with torches and the organizing thereof is different and inimical to civil society.”

My question is, can anyone offer an argument for why private companies should get to choose this?

Like on the anti-Nazi side, everything they say makes a case for why it should just be illegal to host this violent, reactionary rhetoric.

And on the pro-free-speech side, everything they say makes a case for why no gatekeeper is pure enough to decide who does and doesn’t get to speak.

But what’s the logic for “maybe Nazis get to organize online, maybe they don’t, and that decision should be up to the rich people who control internet companies?”

shieldfoss

It goes like this:

“Nazis can do whatever they want on their own time but this is my server that I’ve purchased with my money so therefore it’s me that gets to decide what pages are hosted on it.”

It becomes significantly more cloudy when we get to registrars like godaddy. They are a government-monopoly-by-proxy through ICANN.

bambamramfan

Okay so I thought people weren’t going to take the naively deontic argument here, which is why I skipped it. But very well.

One, as @mitigatedchaos these aren’t really about “your property,” in as much as the CEO’s making these decisions often are not the shareholders, but managers entrusted to make the shareholders money (or other complicated legal entities”. These people have a ton of leniency in those decisions, but “what speech should be expressed” is generally not in the CEO job description. Maybe they make good decisions or bad, but I have trouble seeing fundamental property rights being worked up for the managers making these decisions. If it was a vote of shareholders that would be different.

But two, more importantly, I assume I am talking with people who think the internet should be largely content neutral. People who do not want Google to stop listing supporters of Bernie Sanders. People who don’t want Twitter blocking any criticism of feminism. People who’d be afraid if TWC stopped delivering content about either the Democratic or Republican parties. Maybe you wouldn’t be sure such actions are illegal, but you sure as hell would feel they are unethical.

Most people who are comfortable with Nazi’s getting deplatformed this way are so because they believe Nazi’s (or at least their current rioting actions) are different than just another point of view.

If you think a web company should continue to host political opinions they disagree with, but not that of Nazis organizing armed rallies, which I really do think is a reasonable point of view, then why do you think that question should be up to the CEO of the company?

(Or, to avoid the hot button topic of government regulation - I can see the argument for all hosts are open to Nazis, and the argument for no hosts being open to Nazis, what’s the argument for some hosts being open to Nazis?)

mitigatedchaos

I’m not sure I would agree even if it were a shareholder vote.

Limiting legal liability is an absolutely extraordinary concession on the part of the state, not only to CEO but also to shareholders.  The ability to even get the right-of-ways necessary to even construct those cable lines also depends on state power.

Especially as institutional size increases, the potential damage from legal liability also increases.

Therefore, in my opinion, “but it’s my server” has only fairly weak standing as a moral argument for large or even mid-size corporations.

(There are, of course, other considerations, too. Corps resisting warrantless surveillance of customers in the US is overall a good thing, for instance.)

the invisible fist the iron hand

One of the classic problems around requiring regulations is that people just don’t have, and cannot easily obtain, that much information about businesses sometimes, which is required for markets to actually work.  

(Even when information is free or nearly-free, the Market pays people to sabotage it, just like it pays people to sabotage Market competition through buying politicians.)

This is part of my interest in substituting mandatory insurance schemes for explicit regulations, provided the insurance regulations are themselves well-designed.  The customer may not know much about the safety of the business, but the insurance company, which has a long-standing relationship with the business, does.  

And the less the insurance company knows about the business, the more money it charges for insurance, offsetting some of the risk of harm and potentially communicating risk information to customers.

the invisible fist policy politics the iron hand
triggeredmedia
priceofliberty

Absolutely nothing could justify doing this to another person.

simply-cosmic

This article doesn’t mention that this teenager was arrested for marijuana possession. He’s being tortured over a victimless crime.

triggeredmedia

There are not victims of the drugs? I’ll let mexico and so many people here killed by gangs know that. 

mitigatedchaos

There are victims of drugs, but pot isn’t some sort of cyberpunk drug that turns dudes into hunter-killer zombies, and

1) Stun guns are “less than lethal” weapons, not non-lethal weapons.  If you’re a gun enthusiast you should know this.

2) This isn’t the law.  The law does not indicate electrical torture for pot, not even in spirit.  In doing this, these men are undermining the faith of the people in the justice system and, indirectly, the very legitimacy of the state.

3) If corporal punishment were indicated (which it isn’t), some other method less likely to cause a heart attack would be a better option.

You don’t have to defend every single thing or else the anarchists win, dude.  You only have to support changes to policies that would reduce this behavior in the future, such as independent prosecutorial boards for police misconduct at the state level which are not beholden to the police for their ordinary duties.  America doesn’t lose anything by making its police better.

Source: priceofliberty the iron hand