We really ought to bring back the term “grognards” for misogynist throwback geek boys. I know it used to be applied to “old school” tabletop gamer bros who refused to grow as game systems and gaming culture changed, but I think it’s a good term that deserves to be applied more broadly.
French for “complainers”, the historic grognards were Napoleon’s Old Imperial Guard that he let get away with complaining about stuff that others might go to the guillotine for saying. They were not good for morale, and pretty much universally reviled by the rest of the French Army. Even Napoleon wasn’t all that fond of them, but he let them get away with it because seniority.
I second this motion.
the last time we took an insult that mocked already-hateable people for something relatively unimportant and tried to turn it into a synonym for “misogynist” it did not end particularly well
I hate the word ‘neckbeard’ (to the point where I think it’s an anti-autistic slur), but I still think this is a good idea. The difference is that having a neckbeard does not inherently make you an asshole, but being a grognard in the geek sense has always meant you’re an asshole.
A grognard isn’t just ‘someone who likes older game systems and is sad that newer ones don’t have the features he wants them to’, a grognard is someone who’s That Fucking Guy about it. A guy who says that anyone who isn’t playing their preferred edition of a game is a Fake Geek who Has It Too Easy and Doesn’t Understand What Makes The Hobby Great (sound familiar?). A guy who’s willing to get in big flame wars on the internet about how OH MY GOD 1ST EDITION WAS THE BEST AND ANYONE ELSE WHO SAYS OTHERWISE IS LYING. A guy who, in short, believes No Fun Allowed unless it’s his preferred kind of fun.
‘Grognard’ thus has two connotations built into it that ‘neckbeard’ does not:
1. “You’re being That Fucking Guy, stop it.”
2. “It’s just a game, you should really just relax.”
As long as we’re careful to specify that this doesn’t just mean someone who’s socially awkward or “creepy” - it specifically means someone who’s That Fucking Guy about women/minorities/LGBT+ people in Nerd Stuff- I think it works.
This was exactly where I was going with it. Thank you for finding better vocabulary than me. Because I also hate the term “neckbeard”, and I also don’t like that we stick related stereotypes to “basement dwellers” and “fedora wearers”. Those things are not the problem with the behavior. That’s bullying someone’s outward appearance or living situation, and that’s not fair or right. But “les grognards” - the complainers - describes what they do, and carries with it why it’s a problem.
I appreciate where you’re coming from, I appreciate the distinctions that you’re trying to draw, but…this is not a good plan, folks, you will not like the thing it ends up doing.
As long as we’re careful to specify that this doesn’t just mean someone who’s socially awkward or “creepy”
That never ever works. Once you create a discursive category, it will immediately start mutating to fit the needs of the people in the discourse. Once you create a discursive category that is specifically crafted to be an insult, it will immediately start being used to insult whatever groups people actually want to insult, so long as they’re close enough to the blast radius that the semantic stretch can be made to work. That is how categorical language works. And if you try to push against it, to defend the rigorous boundaries of your terminology…well, we’ve all seen how well the phrase “well, actually” fares in the wild.
“Grognard” sounds a whole lot like it means “filthy basement-dwelling subhuman autistic neckbeard.” Therefore, if it gains any traction, it will be used to mean that thing by the many people who are invested in making such attacks. The niceties of your usage choices won’t have any power to constrain.
To be clear: I don’t mean to be policing your private vocabulary here, it sucks when you can’t talk as you please, use whatever terminology makes you happy (and live with the consequences if/when people misunderstand you or diverge from your intentions). But it sounds like you’re saying that it would be good to make a public campaign of spreading this particular usage of “grognard,” so as a member of the public I’m pushing back.
The best results are likely to come from not creating weaponizable categories. Say the thing you mean, don’t chunk ideas together. You want to say that someone is complaining about other people having Bad Wrong Fun? Say “he’s complaining about people having Bad Wrong Fun, and he should stop.” It’s more words than “grognard,” but the costs are much lower.
Yes, being redeployed against autistics or fat people or the unfashionable is the almost certain outcome of such an endeavor. You can’t euphemism treadmill your way out of being low status. Just ask the “retarded” - or was it “developmentally challenged” now? The establishment keeps trying, at any rate, but it will never work.
