Oceans Yet to Burn

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitoticcephalopod]

honestly if you call trump anything other than his actual name I immediately start discounting your opinion no matter how much I otherwise agree with you.
calling him “drumpf” or “45” or whatever other bullshit you’ve come up with doesn’t like, hurt the trump brand or hurt his feelings in any meaningful way. you’re just being an idiot.

[mitigatedchaos]

Orange Capitalism Man. The Orange Man. Our First Meme-American President.

- neutral on Trump, calls him other things so left/libs panicking he’ll become the next Fuhrer don’t immediately stop listening

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitigatedchaos]

I’m not sure whether we’ll see an increase in it under the Trump Administration.

Nationalism and Social Centrism are both more defensible than Bush and Obama-era American Conservatism, which is part of why we’re seeing them rise, although they’re not calling it Social Centrism yet.  A less jingoistic Nationalism is also a better counter to the Globalism popular among the Left, more capable of exploiting the holes in modern Multiculturalism that have been made vulnerable by the increased stress on the system, but it seemed that for a long time the Jingoism was all we got.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[mitigatedchaos]

I’m an anarchosocialist, not a neolib. Don’t “*I* will be forced to fight them” me, like you’re some kind of hero. Their ideology is already out of date for being morally wrong, saying genetic technology is what will end them implies that the genetic “problems” they present actually need solutions. Violence against fascists is the only option against fascists. They cannot be debated since their ideology is grounded in hatred not logic, they cannot be appeased as they will always ask for more, they have to brutally crushed/scared into disbanding. 
And while fascism is rising in America, antifascism is rising much faster, and hopefully they will come to an inevitable conflict in which fascism is finally wiped from the earth. 

1. The strategy of street fighting the Fascists in Germany failed so badly that Hitler came to power and nearly took over Europe.  If he had been a bit more competent he might have succeeded and the Third Reich could still exist today.  This strategy has already been tried, and it already failed.
   
2. Antifa have pepper-sprayed bitcoin enthusiasts, destroyed immigrants’ cars, harassed business students, and so on.  If the violence were limited to just actual fascists/WNs it would probably be possible to get away with it.  It isn’t.  Instead it’s playing right into the hands of groups who say that “no white is safe”.  By all appearances, Antifa like punching and the feel of righteous indignation more than they value actually bothering to check who is and is not an actual Nazi before punching them.  This makes people who are not Nazis suddenly very concerned about the safety of Nazis.
3. If someone is converted to Fascism, there is no reason to think they cannot be deconverted from Fascism.  There have already been very successful attempts to deconvert Klansmen, who you would very likely claim are also motivated entirely by hatred and must be destroyed by force.  Deconversion is morally preferable to extermination and also results in ideological evaporative cooling, leaving only the craziest members who will seem less credible.
4. Deconverting them requires the ability to make credible claims that there is not a plan afoot to demographically replace them.  You, and the Democratic Party, cannot effectively make this claim.  You probably think that the rise of Trump is a scathing indictment of American racism, and not the result of a direct correlation between premature death rates for middle-aged whites and % Trump votes on a county-by-county basis.  There are a number of large holes for rival ideologies to exploit which could have been prevented entirely by buying off the white working class (and so on), but the Left was not politically willing to pay the cost of closing them.  The mainstream Republican establishment wasn’t willing to pay them either, which is why they got knocked over like a bunch of bowling pins by a populist with little political experience.
1. Not to mention that a lot of the pro-diversity ideology is contradictory or implicitly accepts some of their frame, as I have specified.  People can notice the hypocrisy.  It went under the radar when there was less stress in the system, and in fact I quietly supported keeping it under the radar in order to keep the amount of racism low (this is after all a multiracial country), but all of these terrorist attacks in the West have blown the lid off.  New ideological tools must be developed to repair the situation.
2. Speaking of ideological tools, some old ones must be revived.  The cultural mosaic model creates ethnic tensions.  It’s time to explicitly bring back Melting Pot.  Not bringing it back just gives people reason to wage culture war for the supremacy of their own culture.
5. With advances in genetic technology, white nationalism becomes largely obsolete not just on the premises of its opponents, but on its own premises.  Most ideologues these days are not effectively dealing with the looming spectre of Transhumanism that is due to arrive within decades.  Nervous-system-controlled robotic limbs, vat-grown organs, and genetic selection technology are already here, they just aren’t up to par yet.  Most ideologies will have to be changed significantly to accommodate.  The reason I brought this up is because, while it’s a weakness for the mainstream, it’s a much more glaring weakness for WNs that is not being adequately exploited.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[taylor-ruth]

it doesn’t sit well with me that “emotional labor” in it’s original context was Arlie Hochschild talking very specifically about how taxing face to face service industry jobs are for people (namely women) with this very nuanced context and is now used in everything from “i had to explain something to someone on twitter” or heavily in contexts of romantic relationships. not all emotional management and exchange is labor! to insert the idea of “labor” excessively into interpersonal relationships creates a system of “i performed ____ and now you OWE me for exerting ____” and it’s not healthy or what the term is for.

[shannonwest]

I disagree with this so strongly! fair enough I guess if you wanna say it’s been removed from it’s original context but the latter part of this paragraph has construed discussions around emotional labor very dishonestly. I have no idea how you could read women’s discussions around emotional labor and walk away from it thinking it’s women who have created an unhealthy system or are keeping manipulative mental scorecards. that’s not even remotely close to the truth. women use emotional labor to describe specific sexist power dynamics in their relationships with men, where they are expected to perform an unreasonable amount of emotional work because they are women. saying that women are demonstrating unhealthy behaviour by discussing this oppression is pretty next level! 

I understand this may not be the original intention behind the term, but it’s pretty clear there was a gap where women didn’t have the language to describe this oppressive dynamic, and ‘emotional labor’ filled that gap. 

[ranma-official]

“women are oppressed in consensual romantic relationships they can quit at any point because they experience emotions.”

“men also experience emotions”

“actually, men are meat robots who feel no emotion whatsoever except for the desire to subsume, but nice try”

I explained emotional labor to you in three sentences, don’t thank me.

[the-grey-tribe]

Ranma, why do you even follow people who are either so negative about human interaction or just blatant trolls? Like you find a troll, identify trolling correctly, and troll back?

[mitigatedchaos]

Such is life in the Russian Federation.

The system of rulership and social status of post-Communist Russia is based on a hierarchy of internet trolling, and therefore Russians (such as @ranma-official) must constantly engage in acts of internet trolling to protect their status and advance.  

The greatest troll is then made leader of the country.

Oh wait, that’s not Russia.  That’s 2017 America.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[argumate]

people (very briefly) wrote about Bannon as if he was this erudite mastermind of fascist strategy, but I think the narrative will collapse faster than his attempts at passing legislation.

Dubya’s cronies had been kicking around in Washington for decades and had far more institutional experience and they were still a clumsy pack of ideocrats; you wouldn’t expect Bannon to be even on their level.

[argumate]

mitigatedchaos said: Yeah, I’m going to dredge all the fascist panic up and shove it in peoples’ faces in 4 years at this rate, probably.

“don’t worry, we survived Donald Trump didn’t we?”

“this is different! if you vote for Chelsea Clinton people will die!”

[mitigatedchaos]

Not everyone is going to survive any given Presidency.  Lots of people didn’t survive the Obama Presidency, for instance.

Rather, the specific complaint in this case was that Trump was Fascist and would somehow turn the US into some sort of authoritarian state far exceeding the existing level of wasteful authority.

I’m confident that isn’t going to happen.  Trump is not going to be a military dictator or three-term President.

I’ve been rather annoyed with it, along with the claims of Xism leveled at all opponents, the no-platforming, the enthusiasm for punching ‘Nazis’ that inevitably ends up pepper-spraying bitcoin enthusiasts and cheering physical violence against Libertarians, the racism itself…

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[slatestarscratchpad]

What do people think of the “Trump Humiliated By Health Care Failure” and “Health Care Rejection Shows Trump Is Already Lame Duck” and “Paul Ryan: Worst Speaker Of All Time?” discourse?

Most people I trust seem to think the health care bill was crap. Blaming people for writing a crappy health care bill seems fair enough.

But there seems to be more of an element of picking on them for being too weak to pass the bill, as if now they’re losers and we can never respect them again.

Can we just say something like “Elected officials should propose bills that they and their constituents want, give the rest of the country a chance to weigh in, and if the rest of the country says no, that means democracy is working and they should come back with something better”?

Like, this is complicated because I don’t want Republicans to pass a health care bill right now. But if this were actually important legislation, I would want the government to say “Good thing the American people made their voices heard,” roll up their sleeves, and then write a better bill.

Whereas now it seems like the incentive is to never propose anything that doesn’t have a 100% chance of getting passed the first time. And the other incentive is to desperately try to steamroll your legislation over everyone’s opposition and never admit you’re wrong, because if it fails (even for good reason) everyone will make fun of you.

Or am I missing something important here?

[mitigatedchaos]

Bro, it’s the Orange Capitalism Man.  Anything that can be used to verbally attack him will be.

Why are you expecting good faith or actually caring about long-term incentives on the meta?  Neglecting long-term incentives on the meta is how we got here in the first place.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Contrary to reports by the liberal news media, our new President is neither an Oompa Loompa nor a Cheeto.  

Donald Trump is our first Meme-American President, and his election contributes to the celebrated diversity of our great nation.  

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

[itsbenedict]

This is not a place of honor. We buried a ton of useless poison sludge here. It shoots invisible death rays that kill you slowly, so don’t dig it up or you’ll die.

[argumate]

why don’t we just surround it with something even more toxic that kills people quickly; a few dead explorers could save a village from radiation poisoning

[rangi42]

Booby traps just signal that there’s something valuable being protected.

[argumate]

reverse psychology: surround it with huge advertising signs that visibly reek of desperation

[bpd-anon]

I mean, we aren’t opening up Qin Shi Huang’s underground Mercury (and possibly crossbow) funhouse so maybe explorers in the future would indeed be deterred

[argumate]

only because he made sure that legends of his House Of Fun And Pain were passed down the generations for us to receive!

which is really the lesson here; if you don’t want people to be harmed by your nuclear waste dumps after the collapse of civilization, maybe you could try avoiding the collapse of civilization.

[mitigatedchaos]

I brought this up with the Central Committee and said we should reprocess the spent fuel for a 300-400 year storage time instead.

They rejected my proposal on the grounds that the collapse of civilization would inherently involve the destruction of the United States of America as a political entity, and therefore anyone harmed by digging up a ten thousand-year-old radioactive waste dump under such conditions would, almost by definition, not be an American citizen.

Sometimes I think the decision to put that Kissinger-Trump bot in charge of the DoE was a mistake.

[Oceans Yet to Burn]

Alright, it was me.

I hate every version of the Earth Sphere Federation that I’ve ever encountered so much that I altered the timeline and made Trump the President.

It wasn’t even that hard.