Oceans Yet to Burn

avienbgwp

Reminder

trilllizard420

if you post someone’s address, job, full name, personal details, anything that’s doxing, there are only two things that you want people to do to them:

1) really mess with them to an insane extent, like ordering gay porn, perfume samples, religious books and hundreds of pizzas sent to their house and try to ruin their personal lives/get them fire

2) kill them

so don’t fucking do it

don’t dox people

libby-doe-mods-denofiniquity

i want Nazi’s to get fired or worse

morseapple

i get this but there has already been one instances from last week were people got the wrong person and it could fuck up his whole life for something they didn’t do

trilllizard420

two instances, actually.

they got one of the wrong guys twice.

do you get that?

two people that are categorically NOT nazis got accused of being nazis by some half cocked dipshit on social media.

also fucking with nazis or trying to get them fired is categorically A Bad Idea.

I keep seeing this sentiment in the notes but don’t fucking do it

don’t feed into their victim narrative.

that’ll just push them further into extremism.

like, do you really think someone racist is gonna change their fuckin mind if they get fired because 5000 “undesirables” according to nazi doctrine get them fired?

do you think they’re suddenly magically gonna get a good attitude towards minorities that nazis have historically persecuted?

getting someone fired from a fucking hotdog job where they’re clearly miserable, probably not making much money in the first place ain’t gonna help.

not bein able to pay their bills will not teach them some sort of lesson, or the kind of lesson that would lead to them not being a fuckhead.

it’ll teach them

“these subhumans want you starving, want you to be unable to feed your families and want you dead”

WELL DONE

YOU JUST RADICALIZED A DUMBFUCK EVEN FURTHER

HE’S GOING TO GO DEEPER INTO EXTREMISM THANKS TO YOU, IDIOT

DON’T DOX PEOPLE

mutant-aesthetic

This is a major problem we as a society have with deradicalization. Like, you can’t exile someone from society and expect them to reform, it just further radicalizes them. People are social animals and need a network of healthy relationships so as to deradicalize. If you cut people off from the opportunity to build those relationships, you’re ensuring that the problem will never ever get fixed

avienbgwp

An excellent treatise on why prison doesn’t work. The nazis already are nazis with a network of relationships, likely with other nazis if they were in a gathering with other nazis. Are you suggesting the targets of nazis shoukld sit down and talk with people who literally want them dead. or else to literally do nothing?

mutant-aesthetic

Well I mean it worked for me, so yeah, pretty much.

avienbgwp

congratulations on not being a nazi anymore, not everyone is so quick to give it up.

mutant-aesthetic

Yeah, and your methods are only making the problem worse, so I’d appreciate it if you got out of the way.

avienbgwp

You don’t know my methods, or do you think dead nazis are more of a problem than alive ones?

mitigatedchaos

You are absolutely right, friend. The government must act to stop this epidemic of ideologically extreme vehicular homicide through every means possible. Driving into crowds is never forgivable.

Therefore every Jihadi and Jihadi sympathizer must be executed. No safe spaces for Jihadis. Their sick and twisted ideology offers no deconversion. The only good Jihadi is a dead Jihadi.

Liberals might protest that Jihadis don’t cause much violence, statistically, but the only voice Jihadis will listen to is violence.

Source: trilllizard420 satire politics racepol violence torches in the night

theunitofcaring

I think white supremacists lean really hard on the framing that they’re not destroying peaceful integrated multicultural societies, they’re just noticing that those never existed anyway or are about to collapse anyway.

And of course it’s a transparent lie. There are lots and lots of societies that have had successful peaceful integration. Racists and xenophobes are the force making integration difficult and dangerous and fragile; there’s not some other force that they are just innocently noticing. (Bad economic conditions and weak governments and violence all contribute to making racist and xenophobic movements more appealing. But it’s important to observe that the ‘failure of multiculturalism’ is still caused by the racists and xenophobes acting, it’s not something that happens separately from them.)

mitigatedchaos

Look, it’s true that Europe is not on the verge of a race war. They are not one more bombing away from all the white people mysteriously obtaining guns and launching a new “crusade” against the “saracens” amongst them. (They might be on the verge of the breakup of the EU.)

On the other hand, just because there is relative order does not mean things are as safe as they could be. What’s going on right now looks more like “ethnic tension.” When open Atheists get killed by vigilantes in Islamic countries it isn’t something you encounter on the street, usually. Likewise, when you see low-level violence it’s often going to be in low-SES areas, not where the tourists are. And, of course, that white guy making a van attack against seven random Muslims in response to van attacks by Muslims is more like an ethnic revenge killing in less-developed nations than a declaration of war.

And yes, it’s statistically improbable that you will be killed in the next concert bombing, and technically people should be more worried about falling furniture or whatever, but… The marginal costs are totally out of whack here, everyone knows these bombings are entirely unnecessary while it is pretty much inevitable that some people will die in furniture accidents no matter how hard you try.

Plus we all know that if the terrorists get their hands on an atomic bomb, they will vaporize New York. Furniture would never do this.

(We can also tell that the terrorism either isn’t really about stopping interference in the middle east, or that the terrorists are literally too stupid or ideological to realize what they’re doing isn’t working, because it has been very, very ineffective at that goal. Like, “the Bush Administration was able to get the American public to back the Iraq War” spectacularly ineffective. So “tolerate harder” is unlikely to stop it.)

Here is the problem. Multiculturalism as ideology makes for weak governments.

Wanting to maximize diversity is a non-sensical goal that should result in trying to create as many ethnic groups as there are people. All this “we need more diversity” and “celebrate diversity” stuff is like a religious law that was adaptive and then lost its usefulness but continued on because people didn’t follow it for its adaptiveness.

The real purpose of tolerance as a construct was to prevent continued justifications of war in Europe along religious lines, or something of that kind. It’s a social technology, not a virtue.

It is necessary to recognize the differences among cultures, and act accordingly. Liberalizing social atomization can only occur naturally if cultural forces/practices create the necessary environment.

With its “antiracism” and “decolonization” and opposition to assimilation, multiculturalism as ideology is actively preventing this.

You have to consider how different cultures propagate and support themselves. So that means, if you want to end this nonsense, well…

Ban cousin marriage, out to the second or even third degree. How exactly do these families keep such tight control on “their” women that they think that they own them? Well, being able to arrange marriages without even leaving the family might have something to do with it! Having to marry farther out means women must be given more freedom in practical terms, which will loosen and help eventually destroy their grasp.
Refuse to accept the legalization of polygamy. Polygamy is actually polygyny in practice usually, particularly in the countries these groups are coming from. The child marriage, patriarchal control of women, all of that flows from the gender ratio imbalance under polygamy. Polygamy is bad for women, it is bad for children, it is bad for wealth and for education. Even in the West.
Execute honor killers. Yes, I know, but we want to put the brakes on this now before it sticks. The key is to flip the social status of honor killers from “something those oppressive ethnic majority members stop us from doing and which we will resist” to “you’d have to be a fucking idiot to kill your sister and get executed for it.”
Make killing anyone for leaving a religion a hate crime. Again, it’s a method of control that prevents liberalizing atomization. If that isn’t enough, if people still kill others for leaving Islam, execute them.
Stiffer penalties for FGM and acid attacks. Not only are these methods that those communities use to reinforce their control and prevent atomization, but acid attacks have started catching on among the natives. Political pressure not to crack down on FGM must be stopped in its tracks before it can reach the critical theshold to be co-opted by political parties.

politics violence ban cousin marriage the iron hand

roguetelemetry

LOL NAZIS

roguetelemetry

blackflagcapitalist

“That’s funny. Your side are the ones covering their faces as they stifle free speech, destroy property, and attack innocent civilians. Maybe, just maybe, you guys are the bad ones…”

OR… WAIT FOR IT… YOU’RE A FUCKING NAZI THAT WANTS ALL OF AMERICA’S RIGHTS AND FREEDOMS FOR YOURSELF BUT NOT FOR OTHERS <insert race that isn’t white trash here>

So #1 Go Fuck Yourself and #2 Go Get Me a Sandwich Bitch

mitigatedchaos

It’s all fun & Nazi punching until you pepper-spray a woman wearing a “Make Bitcoin Great Again” hat and attack an immigrant in a business suit. (That actually happened, by the way.)

Because when you encourage “punching Nazis”, that’s what actually happens, because lots of people love punching more than they care about figuring out whether who they are punching is an actual Nazi.

You could have had Nazi punching if the Nazi punchers were the kind of person that didn’t support punching Nazis, since they tend to do a better job figuring out who is and isn’t a Nazi.

But now people that aren’t Nazis have to defend the physical security of Nazis because Tumblr thinks the proper answer to “but what if I thought I was punching a Nazi but it was just a white guy with a shtty haircut” is “run” and not “don’t be a dumbfk that punches people without checking whether they’re actual Nazis first”.

That doesn’t even get into what happened with the actual Nazis and street violence (it didn’t stop them), or the threat level they represent right now (fairly low), or whether they can be won over by other means (one black man got some huge number of dudes to quit the KKK by befriending them), or ideological consistency (you also have to punch Tankies), or whether there will be retaliatory violence (oh Nazis would love that) or whom that retaliatory violence would fall on (hint: usually people more marginalized and vulnerable than the punchers).

politics violence

esoteric-hoxhaism

gunsanddopeparty2020

an editor for the economist retweeted me do i have to seppuku now

mitigatedchaos

I will bring the ceremonial Number Knife, so that you may carve the Grid of Shame into your body and commit sudoku honorably.

violence shtpost

argumate

Source: facebook.com politics violence

sinesalvatorem

Anonymous asked:

G-d. I am so fucking nervous about where this anti-fascist stuff's going. I feel like I'm an island in a sea of an increasingly violent left-wing culture. I lean left and libertarian. I sincerely feel that initiating the use of force is wrong. I have a kid. I don't want her growing up in the middle of a civil war or a totalitarian regime, and I feel like one or the other's inevitable. People keep telling me 'if there are Nazi sympathizers in power, why shouldn't we use violence', but no, _no_...

sinesalvatorem answered:

*hugs*

I know how you feel. I’m terrified. But I think in the coming months it’ll settle down a little as the left realises that Trump isn’t going to run away scared and the Administration realises that people are actually going to resist if they do anything egregious, and we’ll reach a lower-energy-if-still-unstable equilibrium.

I’m still not happy about anything that’s happening, though. You have all of my sympathy. Feel free to message me any time.

mitigatedchaos

If Orange Capitalism Man has any idea what he’s doing - and my estimate is like 50:50 he does vs does not - his plan works based on creating outrage on demand to suit his purposes. He can only extract so much outrage that way until outrage reserves are tapped out and people start pursuing other methods that involve more argumentation and less use of social power.

Probably. I’m only estimating that those outrage reserves are finite.

politics trump violence

sinesalvatorem

Apparently You’re A Nazi

sinesalvatorem

I just encountered a tweet with a gif that showed a woman in a “Make Bitcoin Great Again” hat being blindsided and pepper-sprayed by some guy, with a reply saying “you dont often see female nazis getting what they deserve”

Originally, a “Nazi” meant someone who wanted to create a fascist state and commit genocide. Any decent person would hate these guys, so we all understood that Nazi=Evil.

Then “Nazi” meant someone who endorsed racist beliefs, regardless of policies. This was transparently diluting the meaning from its original form, but we didn’t really mind, because racists suck and we were going to be pissed at them anyway.

Then “Nazi” meant someone who supported Donald Trump for any reason. ie: Over a third of the USA.

Now “Nazi” means someone who wears ~edgy~ hats supporting bitcoin.

And, regardless of your opinion on genocide - or literally anything else, for that matter - in a month, “Nazi” is going to mean you.

It literally does not matter what you believe. Not a single bit. You could be the most fervent anti-racist in the world. You could hate Hitler with all your heart. You could have been completely certain that no one in their right mind would call you a Nazi.

And then someone wearing a dumb hat got pepper-sprayed.

So, the next time you see the punching discourse, remember this: All of those arguments in favour of punching Nazis are encouraging people to punch anyone in a silly hat. Even if the person making the argument doesn’t endorse punching people in stupid hats, this is where it leads. And saying “But I thought they’d only punch the real Nazis!” is no excuse.

Saying “You can punch Nazis” means “You can punch people you call Nazis”. Simple as that. There is no ledger in the sky listing the True Nazis and distinguishing them from the Fake Nazis. If there was, people in stupid hats wouldn’t be pepper-sprayed. Any and all endorsement of punching Nazis on sight is an endorsement of “Use your judgement to decide who to punch, because no one’s judgement is ever flawed”.

And then people wearing the wrong hat will be punched. And people wearing the wrong shoes will be punched. And people eating the wrong food will be punched. And people listening to the wrong music will be punched. And you will be punched. You will always be someone’s Nazi, and this is the political climate in which they will feel justified in assaulting you.

So, if being a fucking decent person who doesn’t attack strangers based on their hat doesn’t compel you, at least let a little self-interest do it. Do you want a jacked up whiteboy with a saviour complex to beat your ass for walking down the street the wrong way? No? Then don’t contribute to the culture that wants to make that happen.

Because when you ride with the disintegration of the social order, you ride with Hitler. ///

the-real-seebs

Ayup.

sptrashcan

Why do we not like Nazis? Because they want to use violence on the people they don’t like. What normalizes Nazis? Using violence on the people we don’t like.

snitchanon

“You will always be someone’s Nazi, and this is the political climate in which they will feel justified in assaulting you.”

This is exactly the sort of thing that’s a counterpoint to everyone I’ve seen whining about how slippery slopes don’t apply to nazis.

7outerelements

I disagree. I don’t have to worry about being someone’s nazi. There are actual emboldened or recently converted nazis out there who worry me more. But stepping away from the element of personal preservation, let me argue more objectively.

You don’t like the argument that punching fascists, assaulting nazis, is categorically different from other violence. OK. Then let’s perceive the phenomenon dimensionally. Everyone can be placed on a scale of 0-100 in terms of nazi quintessence. Public outcry for and against violence done to a fairly high level nazi is a known value: lots of approval, some guilty appreciation, lots of moderate condemnation, and some nazi response. Someone is lower on the nazi scale? Radicals still cheer, but the guilty appreciation and moderate condemnation factions grow. Nazi response is a constant, because they’re nazis. This pattern continues until the majority of society sort of agrees that no, this particular act of violence is not meme-worthy. The market speaks, and our collective decision tree reaches a conclusion - level 69 nazis are not nazi enough to punch, or whatever the needle lands on. People won’t keep slapping level 12 nazis, because the blowback will be huge. It will get no likes.

I trust this system. It will never bite me in the ass. Under no circumstances will I ever be anywhere near the margins of maybe-punchable. Which is as it should be, because nazis are inherently the worst sort of extremists. Avoiding this ideology should be political easy mode. If this social wayfinding violence convinces a few people to maybe shift a little down on that scale, away from the 60-70 splash zone, forgive me for not stepping up to protect their collective right to be dill holes.

sinesalvatorem

So, I have three problems with this:

The first is that the Nazi scale is not consistent or predictable. Lots of people think the scale is in a completely different place from other people. I’m not saying some people want to punch level 50 Nazis, while others only punch 80 and up, and the former is willing to defer to the latter to avoid backlash.

I mean people who actually don’t realise that other people might see the person they’re calling a 90 as being a 20. I have encountered people who are honestly confused that someone on the left might think they’re an asshole if they punch anyone registered to the Republican party, regardless of how or whether they voted. There are people who don’t understand that there might be backlash from all quarters - not just the administration - if Trump’s grandchildren were kidnapped.

There are people whose scales look nothing like anyone else’s, and I don’t even want them to hear “punching level 90 Nazis is OK” because then they’ll punch people no reasonable person would count. I want a blanket injunction because it’s the only thing that’ll stop the paranoiacs who twist everything into Nazis under the bed.

But even beyond that - even if we granted the idea that the perception of the Nazi scale was consistent across everyone - I still don’t want violence to slide further down it. Do we want to to go from punching 80s to punching 60s to punching 40s to the breakdown of civil discourse (to the extent that we still have any)? This is why I want people to stop calling for violent escalation. I want to at least arrest the decline of civil society.

Furthermore, even with a consistent scale, there are outliers. Even if, by some miracle, we could get most people to agree on 60, there would still be people who’ll punch at 30 and damn the consequences because they’re ~saving the world~. Like, if there are already people at the “pepper spray silly hats” level of nonsensical extremism, do we really want the situation to deteriorate? Do we want to lower the average and let the outliers get worse?

Seriously though, I’m not someone’s nazi, I’m someone’s oven joke, I’m literally not allowed to be someone’s nazi, They wouldn’t let me if I tried,

I’m in the same position, mate. I’m Black and Jewish and gay. Any true Nazi would triple-oven me in a heartbeat, so I am fully motivated to track and shame and discredit them.

But some people just don’t fucking get that. I have been called a Nazi on several occasions by obvious idiots. These are the “someones” I mean when I say “someone’s Nazi”. Luckily, none of the people who’ve called me that would have been willing to punch me for it. But that’s the thing: I don’t want that to change. This safety margin is important.

I want the people stupid enough to believe in gay black Jewish Nazis to keep their hands in their fucking pockets. I do not want them to be in an environment where they feel like this is at all justifiable, because those people cannot be trusted to know who to punch. And I have enough on my plate without having to watch my back from so-called allies.

mitigatedchaos

Just to pile on top of this, right wing actions do not occur in a vacuum. Right-wingers are often oversensitive to threats. As the punching spreads, because some people are out there enough to combine “we should punch white supremacists” with “all white people have internalized white supremacy”. Right-wingers are going to respond to that sort of thing by either punching equally unrelated people or going after Leftists. …and they have about as much justification to go after tankies as Leftists have to go after Nazis.

politics violence

fed-detector

nostalgebraist

So am I a leftist (not a liberal) because I am unmoved by arguments that XYZ activist tactic is “incompatible with the norms we must maintain as a free society” or the like

Or am I a liberal (not a leftist) because when I read the news about whichever XYZ people are talking about in this way, it usually looks to me like no political goals are being accomplished and it’s not helping anyone

I want people to tell me about effectiveness and not principles, and a lot of leftist pro-XYZ stuff is still about principles, just the other way around: “since I have no principle against doing this, it’s a good idea”

When I read stuff like this

The bloc takes care to stay together, move together, and blend together. Within minutes, bottle rockets were shooting skyward and bricks were flying through bank windows. You don’t know who does what in a bloc, you don’t look to find out. If bodies run out of formation to take a rock to a Starbucks window, they melt back to the bloc in as many seconds. Bodies reconciled, kinetic beauty. If that sounds to you like a precondition for mob violence, you’re right. But this is only a problem if you think there are no righteous mobs, or that windows feel pain, or that counter-violence (like punching Richard Spencer) is never valid.

I feel like I’ve woken up to find that my bed is covered in piles of fertilizer, and I’m like “why is my bed covered in piles of fertilizer,” and my weird roommate, who put piles of fertilizer on my bed, is all “do you think there should never be fertilizer anywhere? you think farmers should just not fertilize their crops?”

statist-shill-cuck

Or like smashing banks’ property is a perfectly acceptable expression of rage and revenge at such powerful institutions causing immense suffering and if there any fucking justice in this world someone in power would punish the bastards so violent mobs don’t have to do it themselves.

mitigatedchaos

Hah, as if those in charge of the banks will let the burden fall on themselves and not push it off on their underlings and customers, as they have the power to do! Smashing banks is meaningless self-gratification that is used to fuel the Police State.

I’m not going to tell you what kind of political violence would be necessary to be more effective, because I don’t want to encourage political violence, much less effective political violence, but that sure isn’t it.

Source: nostalgebraist politics violence

@leafyhotdog

hey does it feel good to be so passive aggressive against someone who calls for violence against those calling for genocide instead of the ones actually calling for genocide? cause its pretty fucking sad

Buddy, you and your friends are absolutely horrible at telling who is and is not “calling for genocide”, especially since you include anyone questioning the violence in your calls for violence - you wanted violence against “bigots” and said people against the violence were also “bigots”.

You can block me, but it’s the truth. The reason so many people are saying “hey, wait a minute” about this Punching Nazis thing is because we know that it doesn’t end there.

Maybe if it were enforced consistently and actually ended there we could tolerate it, but hey, “Racism is prejudice plus power, and <ingroup> have no power” people already exist, so realistically that is not going to happen.

politics violence leafyhotdog

leafyhotdog

punlich

I can’t wait for liberals to go “ok we marched and we wore these cool hats now we’re done, we finished it, things will be fixed now”

mitoticcephalopod

See but that’s the reassuring thing, it means that people won’t actually be out in the streets assaulting random civilians for looking like nazis.

punlich

I’m sorry I can’t hear you over the beautiful sound of Richard Spencer’s glass jaw cracking under the force of glory-knuckled justice

mitoticcephalopod

why are you all like this

punlich

Because people keep asking me stupid loaded questions on my posts lmao

mitoticcephalopod

look I don’t want to live in a world where lots of people are roaming around looking to start fights with people who disagree on which batshit crazy political ideology they should implement, and I think you would too.

I’m annoyed at the liberals spamming “punch nazi” memes, but it’s reassuring to know that basically all of it is just posturing and signalling, and that most of them can’t be bothered to get off their asses to do the very things they advocate.

leafyhotdog

in? what? world? could? u? be? possibly? living? in? where? nazis? getting? attacked? isnt? something? to? cheer? for? ??? you act like this wasnt a known neo nazi that questions if jewish people are people and if black peoples “are neccessary” like lmao how about instead trying to act above violence you complain about the people calling for mass murder and genocide like??? messy messy messy

ranma-official

In this world.

you complain about the people calling for mass murder and genocide like

Tankies call for mass murder and genocide literally non-stop and unironically, yet they are on the other side of the fist for some reason. But they should not be. ///

leafyhotdog

i support them doing that tbh a fascist is a fascist, one should not and i mean never tolerate intolerance that bitch wants the government to control every aspect of peoples loves yeah she and anyone like her should be killed simple as that, theres no arguing their stupidity only crushing it

ranma-official

You missed the part where you people can’t tell who the Nazis are. “She must have been a Nazi anyways, right?”

leafyhotdog

“you people” who people??? pretty easy to tell whos a bigot when they down talk someone else for race or talk up their own as some sort of master race like??? no, its not hard to see whos arrogant and punishment of who is arrogant is more than good, also any liberals who wanna defend bigots on the basis of free speech can feel free to join the pile of bigoted garbage

mitigatedchaos

That is right, comrade. Anyone who questions our use of political violence is our enemy, and we must inflict political violence on them until the work camps swell with their numbers for the good of Communism. Only those who have already always ever agreed with us and those who are silent out of fear have virtue.

There is no possible way that expanding this sentiment of violence might have terrible consequences and get our regime labelled as one of history’s great monsters - after all, we are good Communists, and by definition, all monsters are counter-revolutionaries in disguise, right?

leafyhotdog

????? just saying man its not even an ounce of hard to tell whos a scumbag bigot and whos not and honestly? like i’ve said before yes antifa or whatever far left groups should make and maintain a more calm and organized look to the masses at large but actual nazi’s like spencer and his goons will always make up shit to legitimize their bigoted actions and someone going around questioning the humanity of other people based on imaginary shit like race needs not only their lights knocked out but their heads blown off plain and simple its not advocating violence it is 100% self defense against people calling for genocide

mitigatedchaos

Yes. Certainly, we must ignore all claims by the Fascists that any of their violence is a form of self-defense. As they are corrupted by the sick, twisted, and vile influence of Fascism, they must assuredly know that any such claims are complete fabrications. They are evil, and cannot be reasoned with, otherwise they would be good Communists like us - everyone knows Communism is true, deep in their hearts.

The defense of Communism is always an act of self-defense by the oppressed masses. And the best defense is a good offense. Until the last thoughts of Fascism have been purged from society, we must be ready to kill at a moment’s notice.

Anyone who doesn’t support killing all Fascists is also tainted by Fascism and must be killed. Recursively.

History will smile on us and our glorious revolutionary Communist wave. They will sing songs of our struggles. Our leaders will never be put side-by-side in textbooks with Adolf Hitler, used as a justification for why Communism must be destroyed and alienating the same working men and women we sought to protect. Completely impossible. We are the good guys, here. Definitely.

Source: punlich politics violence

See, that’s what the app is perfect for.

Reminder

LOL NAZIS

Apparently You’re A Nazi